So I just bought a brand new Cessna 172... Okay, so its not BRAND new but it kinda feels like it. (Its a 1969 C172K)
I currently have my PPL, and will eventually start on my IR.

Anyway, for avionics, it merely has one KX 155, an extra com (ICOM A210 I think), and a mode C transponder. So I have room to upgrade. For now I just need a good VFR gps, but eventually I plan making it IFR, perhaps with a G430W or GTN 650. So my question is...

I'm looking at a garmin 396 (used), or the much nicer 696 (new). Is the 696 worth the money? Would I be better off with the 396 for now and upgrade later? Can you think of any other good VFR units I should look at?

I lean a little towards the 696 because it would make a nice combo with a 430W/650.

For a little broader question, since I am starting from a mostly clean slate, what do you recommend for avionics upgrades in general? I eventually want to get my IR in it, and I could see myself needing to go in actual IMC every once in while. Also, while money is always a concern, I am more interested in value.

THANKS in advance for your advice!

I went from a 496 to a 796 and couldn't be happier with it.
Gary

go with an ipad and foreflight if you are looking at portable gps - they are nothing like a panel mount gps anyway

Whatever I get would probably be panel mounted via Airgizmo or something, I don't need it to actually be portable.

I have considered the iPad route, but I am not sure about how reliable they are. Though I plan to use one for other things.

shortfielder wrote:I went from a 496 to a 796 and couldn't be happier with it.
Gary

Same here. I highly recommend the 796. Fantastic device.

As far as the iPad/Garmin debate goes...
I have both. I use both. I love both. But, if receiving weather info in the airplane is important to you, there is no comparison between cell coverage and XM coverage. Much of the time while in the air or on the ground in remote areas, I won't have any cell service on the iPad. However, I've never been out of XM satellite range.

No doubt, the iPad with Foreflight is one of the best things to hit aviation lately, and I use the heck out of it. But...if I had to choose 796 or iPad for an IN FLIGHT device...796 every time, no question. Fortunately, that's a choice I don't have to make, so I utilize both for what each is best at.

RWM wrote:

shortfielder wrote:I went from a 496 to a 796 and couldn't be happier with it.
Gary

Same here. I highly recommend the 796. Fantastic device.

As far as the iPad/Garmin debate goes...
I have both. I use both. I love both. But, if receiving weather info in the airplane is important to you, there is no comparison between cell coverage and XM coverage. Much of the time while in the air or on the ground in remote areas, I won't have any cell service on the iPad. However, I've never been out of XM satellite range.

No doubt, the iPad with Foreflight is one of the best things to hit aviation lately, and I use the heck out of it. But...if I had to choose 796 or iPad for an IN FLIGHT device...796 every time, no question. Fortunately, that's a choice I don't have to make, so I utilize both for what each is best at.

Yeah, weather is pretty important for me, which is why I would need XM.

You mention the 796. Is it much better than the 696? I don't really need a touch-screen.

You can now receive weather via deLorme inReach without a xm subscription. Another option.

http://inreachdelorme.com/product-info/inreach-weather.php

I don't have any experience to speak of with the 696, but I had the 496 for years before the 796. Maybe someone with more relative 696/796 experience can compare those two for you.

The 796 touch screen may seem like a feature you don't "need", but it makes navigating the menus and getting to the info you need sooo easy. You get nice features like the ability to "rubber band" your route, type in identifiers on a keyboard, and pan and zoom like an ipad. The system is very intuitive and user friendly. No toggling and button pushing. It's one of those things that you can sure live without, but after you've lived with it, you want to keep it around.

Not sure about the 696, but the 796 has the sectional view as well as the regular nav view.

Another cote for the 796. I love mine. XM radio is nice as well. There are times that the XM cuts out up here in Canada, but it's for a very short period at a time if it happens, like a second or two.
David

For a portable, I'd get a iPad mini (cellular model) with fire flight all day long, I have mine in a soft case which sits in my lap, works great, never had a issue in everything from 2 seat GA to turbo props. Not a huge fan of panel mounting portables.

For your panel, I like the GNS WAAS series over the GTNs, I'd just say go check them out and make your choice, they both shoot the same approaches, just a different GUI.

I'd also highly recommend looking into a HSI, or even a sandel 3308 or better EHSI, helps tons for IFR.

Look on eBay and some of the forums, there are deals to be had.

I see a lot of votes for the 796. So do you know of good places to find deals on one? So far I have found the 696 to be $1500 and the 796 to be $1700.

796 over 696. The display and features of the 796 are fantastic. Also, give the 660 a look, it is pretty much a 796 but smaller and cheaper. About $850.


Kurt

Another vote for the 796. I was at the Alaska Airmen's show this weekend, and in talking with the Garmin rep, 796 is still king, even with arrival of the smaller 660. It's not about the touch screen, although that is nice now that I'm used to it, it also has Bluetooth capability. I used Bluetooth to interface with my GDL 39 3D, which nets free in cockpit weather and traffic reports when in coverage. I also use it to display XM weather because most of my flying is in Canada where there is no ADS-B coverage.

The 796 has a GPS driven HSI presentation available. It also can serve as a backup attitude indicator with the GDL 39 3D driving it. It has nearly the same user interface as the GTN series, so you'll be accustomed when you upgrade your panel.

Speaking of panel upgrades, as long as the 172 is your "forever" airplane, go ahead. I'd suggest though, that you'll fly it for a while, and then be ready for more performance. It could make more sense to trade up to a nicely equipped IFR 182 for the same end cost as upgrading the 172.

I bought one of the early 396 models. They were unveiled at Arlington WA NW EAA gathering a decade ago. Mine still works, and I still have it running in the cockpit to record my flights, and because I'm so familiar with the button pushes, that when I get busy I like to have it handy. That said, the processor is too slow, the screen resolution is severely outclassed, etc. If you're price conscious, you could buy one used, but I would add a bit to the budget and never go back in time further than a 496.

Speaking of iPads, I side with those who think they're great for planning and reference, and I'm a Foreflight user, but a dedicated Garmin portable is what you fly with. Think your iPad will be around in 10 years like my old 396? Garmin portables win the reliability contest.

There is a used 796 on barnstormers for $1,200. Just search "Garmin 796".

Can those garmins overlay geo ref approach plates? Hold a searchable POH, FAR, MEL, etc? Act as in computer with internet?

For now, I'd suggest buying a cheapie tablet (got my 8" for a c-note) and running the free Avare app for VFR use.
A friend of mine added a 7" tablet to his family data plan (Verizon?) for $10 a month, and they gave him the tablet free.
Save your money for adding IFR-approved GPS to your 172, or for stepping up to a 182 in a few years.

You'll get lots of advice here, and some of it will conflict, so eventually you'll have to make your own decisions on what to get, what to install, or even whether to install. Here's what I've done, which I'm very happy with.

I have a 1963 P172D, with a 180hp Avcon conversion, which is my "forever" airplane, at my age. I've had it for a little more than 12 years. I've owned in partnership 3 other airplanes; this is all mine.

I do light IFR in it, in addition to lots of VFR flights, including to back country locations and over the mountains. So although I don't really need the latest and greatest avionics, it is pretty well equipped, and it all works well. Over the time I've owned it, I've had all of these installed:
>Garmin 430W, with full US nav coverage kept current; I have terrain/obstacle data updated about every 2 years
>Narco navcom
>King ADF
>PS Engineering audio panel/intercom
>King KT74 transponder (talks to the 430W, provides ADS-B Out)

Also newly installed, I have a Sandia Quattro which replaces the AI. It is electric and has a built-in backup battery, so that if ship's power bellies up, it's good for 1-2 hours. Only my DG is vacuum driven. If I were to lose the vacuum pump, I can maintain heading with the excellent SIRS compass, which I had installed a few years ago--much better than the OEM Airpath compass.

For weather and ADS-B In, I have a Stratus 2 tied to an iPad Mini mounted on the yoke. I also use the Mini as an EFB with a Foreflight Pro subscription, which provides all the geo-referenced charts, both VFR and IFR including all the approach plates, for the entire US. After a year of using it, I have opted out of Synthetic Vision, as it doesn't impress me as being all that usable. I also have Foreflight on my iPhone 5s as a backup, including the Horizon app for a second AI, also tied to the Stratus 2, which I stick on the panel.

The Mini has worked flawlessly for the 3 years I've had it. I have other apps on it, so I can use it away from home for surfing the web and emails.

I also have a Garmin 96C handheld, which is an excellent pocket-size portable. It was my first aviation GPS. It's no longer made, but updates are still provided. It's hardly necessary, but handy for checking on distances, etc., and it has a better map than the 430W for VFR use. I have it mounted on the panel.

I get some good natured flack here for my cluttered panel, but here's what it looks like, before the KT74 and Quattro were installed:



Enjoy your new airplane!

Cary

Cary wrote:You'll get lots of advice here, and some of it will conflict, so eventually you'll have to make your own decisions on what to get, what to install, or even whether to install. Here's what I've done, which I'm very happy with.

I have a 1963 P172D, with a 180hp Avcon conversion, which is my "forever" airplane, at my age. I've had it for a little more than 12 years. I've owned in partnership 3 other airplanes; this is all mine.

I do light IFR in it, in addition to lots of VFR flights, including to back country locations and over the mountains. So although I don't really need the latest and greatest avionics, it is pretty well equipped, and it all works well. Over the time I've owned it, I've had all of these installed:
>Garmin 430W, with full US nav coverage kept current; I have terrain/obstacle data updated about every 2 years
>Narco navcom
>King ADF
>PS Engineering audio panel/intercom
>King KT74 transponder (talks to the 430W, provides ADS-B Out)

Also newly installed, I have a Sandia Quattro which replaces the AI. It is electric and has a built-in backup battery, so that if ship's power bellies up, it's good for 1-2 hours. Only my DG is vacuum driven. If I were to lose the vacuum pump, I can maintain heading with the excellent SIRS compass, which I had installed a few years ago--much better than the OEM Airpath compass.

For weather and ADS-B In, I have a Stratus 2 tied to an iPad Mini mounted on the yoke. I also use the Mini as an EFB with a Foreflight Pro subscription, which provides all the geo-referenced charts, both VFR and IFR including all the approach plates, for the entire US. After a year of using it, I have opted out of Synthetic Vision, as it doesn't impress me as being all that usable. I also have Foreflight on my iPhone 5s as a backup, including the Horizon app for a second AI, also tied to the Stratus 2, which I stick on the panel.

The Mini has worked flawlessly for the 3 years I've had it. I have other apps on it, so I can use it away from home for surfing the web and emails.

I also have a Garmin 96C handheld, which is an excellent pocket-size portable. It was my first aviation GPS. It's no longer made, but updates are still provided. It's hardly necessary, but handy for checking on distances, etc., and it has a better map than the 430W for VFR use. I have it mounted on the panel.


Enjoy your new airplane!

Cary

Yeah I am slowly getting figured out the panel for me. Mine will be similar to yours, just basic IFR.

I am thinking a little long term with regards to upgrades. It may not be my "forever" plane, but since I am relatively young, I plan to have it for a while. So I think I should be able to get good use out of whatever I put into it. All the planes that I would upgrade to are all too expensive for me, and will be for several years. That said, you never know when opportunity may come knocking.

Thanks for sharing your setup!

The Garmin units are all excellent choices.

If you want very similar capability to a 796 but at a substantially lower price, check out the King AV8OrAce. Full disclosure - I have one I am looking to sell for $350 with all the accessories, original box etc. It does pretty much everything the 796 does including touch screen. Check features side by side and they stack up pretty darn well. I had it panel mounted in my RV-4 and just removed for a panel upgrade with the Dynon Skyview system. I've seen the smaller brother AV8Or's go for $100-200.

They are kind of orphaned units from King, but really do pack a lot of functionality for a very low price point of a used system. Database updates are readily available from Seattle Avionics.

Steve
RV-4
Bearhawk 4PL

For long term thinking purposes, the recent relaxation of the rules which hit the media about allowing certain non-TSO'd panel items to be installed in certificated airplanes may be beneficial to anyone seeking to upgrade their panel. I don't know the details, but it sounds like things like the Dynon equipment which is so popular with the experimental builders may become authorized for certificated airplanes--and it's good stuff. I have a couple of friends with Dynon avionics in their Lancairs, and they're pretty impressive.

Of course, that means that all of us who've paid through the nose for certificated avionics will wish we'd waited!

Cary