Hey Guys, I'm getting close to buying my first plane, and much like buying a car when you're a teenager, I'm sure there are tons of things that need to happen/will happen that I don't even know about as far as purchasing, and what's required as far as documentation, inspections, etc.

First, let me outline what I'm looking for, and then I'll go over what I know I'll need, and I'd appreciate it if you more experienced guys would help me fill in what I'm missing.

I'm looking to get a C172 180hp CS prop. <500 SMOH <500 SPOH w/fresh annual

I know I'll need to do the following.

1. Pre-buy inspection (~$250)
-Check to make sure all ADs are complied with
-Check damage history
-Check for corrosion
-Check to see when the tanks were last sealed (or does the 172 have bladders?)
-Check compression
-Boriscope the engine to check for any gotcha's
-Check to make sure all factory recommend

2. Get insurance quote for the new aircraft

3. Fly out to fly it/take a look myself

4. Factor in fuel/charts/accommodations (meals, hotels, etc) for the trip back

5. registration? how does this work?

6. air-worthyness certificate? what needs to be done here?

7. like buying a car, is there tax/title/licensing crap I have to worry about?

8. what else am I missing?

I'm sorry if any of these questions are stupid, I just want to make sure I'm doing everything I can before I jump in face first.

totoro001 wrote:1. Pre-buy inspection (~$250)
-Check to make sure all ADs are complied with
-Check damage history
-Check for corrosion
-Check to see when the tanks were last sealed (or does the 172 have bladders?)
-Check compression
-Boriscope the engine to check for any gotcha's
-Check to make sure all factory recommend

2. Get insurance quote for the new aircraft

3. Fly out to fly it/take a look myself

4. Factor in fuel/charts/accommodations (meals, hotels, etc) for the trip back

5. registration? how does this work?

6. air-worthyness certificate? what needs to be done here?

7. like buying a car, is there tax/title/licensing crap I have to worry about?

8. what else am I missing?

I'm sorry if any of these questions are stupid, I just want to make sure I'm doing everything I can before I jump in face first.

#1- hire an impartial mechanic and have a full annual inspection done. Once any dificiencies are identified you can netotiate the corrections with the seller. Don't use the seller's mechanic.

#2- insurance is up to you. If you intend to insure you should shop around. Like other insurance once a broker secures a quote from an underwriter that underwriter won't talk to other brokers so choose who you use wisely.

#3- if I was the seller I might take you for a ride but you wouldn't be offered PIC priveleges until the purchase was completed. No harm in asking but don't be shocked to hear no.

#4- obviously. If it was me I'd take my own mechanic with me, too.

#5- there' are a couple of FAA transfer of ownership forms that you'll have to submit. Easy to do.

#6- the airworthiness certificate stays with the airframe. There's nothing to do with that except to assure the plane has the cert. it's req uired equipment for airworthiness.

#7- one of the FAA forms is the registration transfer. You'll keep one copy of that form as you registration form until the FAA sends you the new registration cert. The registration is another required piece for airworthiness. Tax is a local issue, not a Federal one. I've never had to pay tax for a purchase but Anchorage does collect aircraft taxes for owned aircraft. Check your local rules for tax consequences. If you're going to finance the purchase your lender will know what needs to be done.

#8- you've covered the big things. Hire a mechanic you trust and he'll help you with the process. The participation of an objective mechanic is huge.

Good luck.

Spend the time to actually *read* the logs from start to finish. It's not just for AD's- it's for damage history and to clue you in on where to look more closely for repairs, and to verify prop/engine/etc times.

Congrats!

I see you are in Henderson.

Nevada is not California, but over here there would be sales tax and then a annual property tax bill.

Never let anyone with much to gain from the completion of the sale coerce you.

Like Stewart said, use people you trust for evaluation and advice.

I would recommend doing a google search on the N-number. This can bring up all sorts of things, from incident investigations to pictures of the plane in question. Also do a search on the NTSB website for accident/incident reports. I wouldn't be afraid of damage history but it is vital to go in with eyes wide open. And just because there is no official damage history does not mean that the plane has never been damaged.
Check the FAA registry to make sure that the registration is valid and accurate. While there you can order a CD from the FAA that contains all the paperwork they have on file for that aircraft. If it's an older plane it's amazing how much paperwork is there. I think it's about $10 for the CD and usually takes about a week or so to arrive. Anybody can order a CD for any aircraft.
Good luck out there!
-Nate

I'd rebut that logs are little more than short stories that have been editorialized by everyone who ever wrote in them. Take them with a grain of salt. The airplane is what it is. You don't fly logbooks. You may want to order a title search on the airplane which will include lien history and usually includes all records of the airframe that have been filed with the FAA. You can order the FAA history on your own, too, if you want to see the 337 trail for that N number. The logs may or may not reconcile with what you find. In any event your mechanic is responsible for signing an airplane off as airworthy. By doing so he accepts responsibility for all previous work, so he may want to scour the logs and FAA records. Never underestimate the importance of a good mechanic, which explains what I said to item #1 above.

Thanks for the input so far everyone! It's a big help. Here's what I'm getting so far:

*Find a GOOD, IMPARTIAL mechanic, don't use the seller's mechanic, and have an annual done
--should I do this in place of a pre-buy, or should I do a pre-buy, and if all looks good, then move on to this?
--is this something that I would normally pay for, the seller would normally pay for, or is normally negotiated

*Shop around for insurance
--wait, did you mean that insurance is OPTIONAL? I plan to finance, so I'm guessing that as long as it's financed I've got to carry insurance. I'm guessing the bank will tell me what is required here

*Don't expect to act as PIC, but a ride isn't out of the question

*Take your mechanic with you
--I don't have this option, but good for others who may come across this thread in the future

*Read through the aircraft logs, but take them with a grain of salt. Verify engine/prop times

*Google the N number to see what comes up

*Check local laws for potential applicable taxes

Thanks for all the help guys! I can't wait to find the right plane, throw some fat tires on it, and start hitting the dirt/grass strips!

Falls under pre-buy/ logs, but since it hasn't been explicitly said already make sure all the STCs and 337s are in order for any mods.

I didn't read all of the replies, but you need to make sure that there are no liens on the airplane and that the seller is really the owner.

I would put the title research and purchase agreement first. The purchase agreement should be done through an escrow service and include provisions that you get to pick the mechanic and have the airplane inspected. The seller gets to fix everything the inspection turns up. You pay for the inspection, he pays for items addressed. If the seller is comfortable with this arrangement, it tells you loads about the condition of the aircraft. If he/she isn't, it might be worth pursuing, but you'll be wanting to find a way to make sure things were done and done right.

My two cents.

IMO use AOPA airplane buying service. I think it was $100 They check for liens, have all forums, check it for red flag issues, and submit it to the FAA. For an extra charge they had a product similar to title insurance also. I think it was $30 I was very happy with them.

https://aopa.aictitle.com/default.aspx


Cheers...Rob

Title/lien search is a must! I had a deal fall through a few years back on a 185 after doing a title search and finding a lien. I had already flown the airplane and ready to pull the trigger and then paid the $100 to do a search and very glad I did. The owner claimed he knew nothing about the lien and acted all surprised when I told him what I found. I called the lien holder and got the real story and he wanted a couple thousand bucks to release the lien. I found another airplane and never heard what happened with the lien but it was a nice 61 185.

You're on the right track. Here is something that came up in my recent purchase that is easily overlooked: if the plane is highly modified like the 180hp CS would be (or are you thinking restart 172s?), start digging into all the "other" logs. This should include 337s for major modifications, STC paperwork that gives you the "rights" to the mod, and any supplemental flight manuals that may be required by those mods. You can order whatever the FAA has on record, but it should be considered only a starting point.

I just recreated a lot of this for the highly modified 182 I recently bought, and it can be quite a project. It is critically important, though - if there are any modifications, and especially if it's something as big as an engine, prop, or expensive autopilot, you want to make absolutely sure they're legal mods and properly documented.

Also, check your N-number for accident reports, SDRs, and a lot more - all provided free or cheaply from the FAA.

I would add that a good pre-buy is almost an annual, if things are going well ask the mechanic to finish it. Hopefully he/she is an IA or there is one available to sign it off. Pre-buy expenses are normally on the buyers nickel but is negotiable. Other than paperwork the pre-buy is the last thing to be done, the ride and your "first look" inspections come first followed by your offer. Make sure your offer includes some "get out" items such as a successful pre-buy, airworthiness, no leaks etc. Things found on the pre-buy can re-open negotiations too.

1.] Don't get "emotionally involved" with an aircraft until all the inspections, etc are done.
It is not your plane yet. You are in love with a pretty picture and optimistic description on the internet.
Your internet sweetheart might be a pilot killer with terminal cancer and nothing left to lose.
Sounds stupid, but seen it happen.

2.] Don't get impatient waiting for the right plane.
Folks will start to do everything right, but after awhile, they want a plane NOW.
Esp if they have already waved off on a plane or 3.
That is when they'll start to get casual on inspection, think they are being too fussy, overrule their mech, etc.

3.] But have all your stuff ready so you can do the deal faster than someone else.
Truly good planes priced correctly can sell very fast.
You want to be ready to hop when 'your' plane does show up.

As others have noted, get a Title search done FIRST. No point traveling, especially hauling a mechanic along on your dime, etc until you KNOW the title is clear and the "owner" can actually sell the plane legally.

MTV

As others have noted, get a Title search done FIRST. No point traveling, especially hauling a mechanic along on your dime, etc until you KNOW the title is clear and the "owner" can actually sell the plane legally.

MTV

Awesome guys! Thanks for all your help so far! This will all be taken into account.

As far as taxes go, I believe Nevada leaves aircraft taxes to the individual counties (you'll want to check that for yourself). Looking at Clark County's assessor's homepage, it seems you have to pay a yearly amount (http://www.clarkcountynv.gov/depts/assessor/Pages/AircraftAssessment.aspx), and you'll probably have to pay use tax (similar to sales tax). Just be glad you're not in California - when I bought mine, I had the privilege of paying almost 10% to the state. I left before I got dinged with property tax, too.

For the nitty gritty details of aircraft registration, you can read through FAR 47, though you'll probably most be interested in 47.5. The AC Form 8050–1 they refer to you have to get from your local FSDO or the FAA's Aircraft Registration Branch. I don't see the reference after a quick scan, but I believe you'll need a bill of sale, too (AC Form 8050-2).

When checking ADs, make sure that those for everything are looked at, airplane, engine, propeller, and all appliances. If any of them are recurring and coming up soon, you can use that for price negotiation. Also, you should look at service bulletins and service letters. Although there's no requirement they be complied with (for part 91 operations), it's still a good idea to do what they specify. If you want to get picky about ADs (and you should), make sure that each one has been recorded correctly - they aren't always. See FARs 43.9 and 91.417(a)(2)(v) for the details.

It's probably a good idea to check with the Cessna owners' association (or whatever it's called) for some pointers on the sorts of things to have the mechanic you hire look at. Also, Cessna just put out a service bulletin(?) about corrosion inspection - it might be worth looking at (or you can watch the video they posted).

Taking a test flight is a good idea, too. I can't think of a good reason a seller wouldn't be willing to take a prospective buyer up. It'll give you a chance to see how it operates (is it rigged correctly? does it make funny noises or smells? do the radios work well? how are the instruments? etc.).

As mentioned above, you can do a google search for the N number to see what sorts of trouble it's been in. Also, don't forget the NTSB (not that everything gets reported there), and the FAA's N number searches.

Oh, and when choosing a mechanic for the pre-buy inspection, you may wish to get references if you don't already know them.

Good luck. The whole process isn't nearly so bad as it sounds, and at the end of it, you'll have a shiny (probably), new (to you) plane you can fly any time you want.