Hello everybody: I have money down on a 2000 M7 90TT 40SMOH at Lycoming in March 2006. Crank AD is done. IFR 4 package, Patrol doors, Wide Spring gear, 3 blade prop, new hub, Float kit, 4 fuel tanks, Vortex Generators, Gap seals. White with Fire engine red stripes. Where do y’all get Insurance? What do you pay? Have you ever heard of high deductible in exchange for lower premiums? I’m thinking 5K to 10K. I’ll take insurance agent phone numbers if you have any. My problem is I am a 100-hour pilot with 0 hours tailwheel time. I am going to do 30 hours of dual with a side by side tailwheel CFI and 200 landings before I fly it solo. The CFI will have 700 hours or more side by side tailwheel time. I am looking for one who is Maule M7 current. I think a 16-year-old with 6 DUIIs in a Lamborghini can get cheaper insurance. Doesn’t $7000.00 a year sound extreme? Regards…Rob Burson

You should get specialist time. Contact George Kirkish who flies out of Vashon Island and Boeing field Seattle - all he does is tail wheel instruction in both a J3 and Maule m7-235.

Very good instructor.

These planes have a history of ground loops, hence the insurance rates, especially with low time tailwheel pilots. With a 3 bladed prop, it is not the 180hp version, so the nose is heavy on these and the descent must be managed.

I know of someone that just groundlooped theirs coming out of a full rebuild (for gear failure - make sure you have the new bolts on those), and they had done tailwheel instruction as well.

Great performing plane though, and great bargains.

George loves his, and knows all the quirks. You definately should go to him, or talk to him, if you can.

I have contemplated going from a 182B to a 180. I have about 750 hrs in the 182B and about .5 hrs tailwheel time. My insurance would go from 900 bucks to arround 2000.

What I may do is to get an Areonca Champ and get about 50 hrs on it then make the transition. Because of replacement values I could insure the 182 and the Camp for about the same price as a 180. Oh and by the way the broker said to stay away from a Maul, both tail and nose wheel types.

Insurance is based on loss ratios for the most part and also there are fewer and fewer companies that will even touch a small plane. That is where supply and demand come in. Most of the high cost is from non proficient pilots and lawyers. Even with my 1/2 hr of tailwheel time I kind of think that a non proficient, but curent pilot can land a tricycle plane and get a way with it and it is much tougher to do that in a tailwheel plane.

Tim

There's some merit to the trike vs. TW ease argument but on a personal level, time = proficiency. You can be current but not proficient. In the IFR world, you can be legal and still dead.
The insurance rates are based in part on seats, HP and replacement parts and region. There was a list of the leading payouts according to types. It was very interesting (Guys, help me out and someone drag up that list) the Huskies were leading the pack with something on the order of $4+ payout for every dollar taken in. The next three were Maules, Super Cubs and 180/185's. I don't recall the order.
The Husky is a relatively new A/C and there are few if any used parts. New parts will take awhile in any case. (Besides, the adds say you can take them anywhere right?) Maules have four seats, have a reputation of being short coupled and nose heavy (most out there are 235's) and there seems to be a relatively high percentage of newer pilots/first time owners in them, due I think, primarily to price point.
The 180/185's have amazing replacement costs. Just for fun, spend the time and find out how much a complete cowl (Hell, a partial even), if you can find one, will cost. The last one I heard of (ground loop) was $17,000 and they repaired two major pieces!
Flying's not cheap. For those of us that work for a living, we plan and give in some other places and for that, it's so much more special. That being said, flying is also high profile, especially with the media and ahem, Lawyers. Hell hath no fury like a grieving Widow, not that a good Jury selection can't be found. Sorry, truth but.... It all equates to more cost.
So you dodge the courts and suits but file a claim to rebuild your craft. Just try to file a claim if one thing is out of line on the plane or pilot, no coverage.
Your plan might work for the smaller T/W plane. Then again, you might be having so much fun in that thing that you'll never look any further. The neatest plane I have ever flown was '37 T-craft with the "big" 65 hp engine (it came with a 38hp Cont.) With the exception of load and speed it out did my Maule in spades!
Kurt

Rob,

You kind of answered your own question:

"2000 M7 90TT 40SMOH at Lycoming in March 2006"

Let's see--a SIX year old airplane with less than a hundred hours, and at 50 hours, the thing was obviously ground looped or nosed over.

Call Avemco. Then call a broker and ask them to find the cheapest insurance you can. Call a GOOD AVIATION broker, not your local State Farm dealer.

You will only get TWO quotes: AVEMCO is an independant, so they will quote you. If you already have a quote from a broker, that is the only quote you'll get from underwriters. The broker's job is to shop around for the best quote for you. So, you'll only get one quote on the open market.

DO NOT GET instruction from someone with side by side tailwheel experience!!!! Get specific dual instruction from someone who has a lot of MAULE experience. As in a LOT.

They are short coupled, busy airplanes on the runway, but once mastered, they will do a lot, and are great performers. But they can be a handful, especially if you get someone who doesn't know what they're doing, and who doesn't stay current. Witness your prospective airplane's history.

Jeremy Ainsworth on this site can direct you to a proficient Maule instructor. I wouldn't even think of going to anyone who doesn't have a lot of Maule time. I consider myself a fairly proficient tailwheel instructor, with a lot of time in Cessna taildraggers, and about 200 hours of Maule time, and I wouldn't be interested in flying with you in that airplane, frankly.

Then again, I'm not at all reluctant to turn down opportunities to exhibit my skills >

MTV

mtv wrote:Rob,

You kind of answered your own question:

"2000 M7 90TT 40SMOH at Lycoming in March 2006"

Let's see--a SIX year old airplane with less than a hundred hours, and at 50 hours, the thing was obviously ground looped or nosed over.

MTV

Mike--



THe New OH can be attributed to the Crank AD that came out not long ago and the Maule 235 and 260 were lucky enuff to be in on that one.

Rob-


In responce to your e-mail I would get ahold of Scott Gustafson (503-266-2216) for the Insurance and then get ahold of his son Tim for the instruction. Scott and Tim are both Maule drivers and are close to your area. (trust me that will help in your instruction) I'll give you a call on the rest.

Rob- I bought an older Maule M5 with "0" hours of tailwheel and got a $3300 first year premium (hull was worth less than yours). After going through the training process...I would recomend you get your tailwheel training in a lower h.p/performance tailwheel aircraft, like a C-140, J-3, etc. That way you learn the fundamentals without the "fire" of horsepower...it will humble you. You can check with Ryan Birr at Northwest Indurance Brokers in Beaverton (I think). They are strictly aviation and have a few more sources to shop the market. Good luck.
Don

Thank you all for the good advise. I will call Scott and Tim. I found out from Avemco when I have 50 hours, cross wind training, King safety course, and 5K deductable I am down to 200 bucks a month. I can handle that. Regards to you all...Rob

You probably know this, but there are only about eight aviation underwriters; Avemco, AIG, Global, etc. Agents go through the underwriters to create a policy for you. The great thing about using an agent is that they can "shop" you around and see which of the underwriters will give you the best rate. If you call Avemco direct, you'll only get their rates. When I had my Maule, Global was the least expensive, and Avemco was the most. It might just pay to check around a bit.

Personally got training and my tailwheel endorsement from George.

We flew exclusively in the J3, but he's got a beautiful Maule.

Very insightful, helpful guy with a lot of experience.
Highly recommended.

Lots of airplane for a 100hr 0tw pilot, how much IFR time do you have?

Had some luck with air power insurance, but yeah, first year will be a roll of the dice for them, expect to pay huugly for the first year

Maules are great airplanes. I owned mine for 13 years. The advice above is spot on - Find an instructor with a lot of Maule time. A Maule will keep you honest. I sold mine because I needed something that could handle a little more x-wind and had a little more speed. I think I had around 4K tailwheel hours when I bought mine back in 2000 - Insurance was $1,400'ish. I fly a Husky and an RV-7a now and my rates for both planes are in the $1,900 range.

Cheers and good luck with the new bird!

Jim

NineThreeKilo wrote:Lots of airplane for a 100hr 0tw pilot, how much IFR time do you have?

Had some luck with air power insurance, but yeah, first year will be a roll of the dice for them, expect to pay huugly for the first year

I'd reckon he has quite a few more hours than he did 16 years ago.

Zzz wrote:

NineThreeKilo wrote:Lots of airplane for a 100hr 0tw pilot, how much IFR time do you have?

Had some luck with air power insurance, but yeah, first year will be a roll of the dice for them, expect to pay huugly for the first year

I'd reckon he has quite a few more hours than he did 16 years ago.

Just looked at the date, indeed

I don't know why I don't look at dates... I thought it was a new thread

jaudette wrote:I don't know why I don't look at dates... I thought it was a new thread

We have legacy!

Even though this thread was started when I was in high school....

In the beginning of 2022 I got 2 quotes for a 180hp Maule with a hull value of 90k. 100TT 0TW.
5k from AVEMCO
10k from Falcon.

My 170B was $2400 from BWI or $2100 from Avemco.

I went with BWI on the guidance that Avemco would be unfriendly if something happened off airport.

SmokeyTheBear wrote:Even though this thread was started when I was in high school....

In the beginning of 2022 I got 2 quotes for a 180hp Maule with a hull value of 90k. 100TT 0TW.
5k from AVEMCO
10k from Falcon.

My 170B was $2400 from BWI or $2100 from Avemco.

I went with BWI on the guidance that Avemco would be unfriendly if something happened off airport.

After hearing a similar statement from a pilot a few years ago, I asked AVEMCO if they covered off airport ops. Their response was that if it’s not specifically excluded in policy documents, it’s covered. None of my AVEMCO policies have included such an exclusion. I once asked Mike Adam’s, who was at the time President of AVEMCO, the same question. He said they cover off airport ops.

Like any insurer, after an accident, rates may go up…..but.

MTV

After hearing a similar statement from a pilot a few years ago, I asked AVEMCO if they covered off airport ops. Their response was that if it’s not specifically excluded in policy documents, it’s covered. None of my AVEMCO policies have included such an exclusion. I once asked Mike Adam’s, who was at the time President of AVEMCO, the same question. He said they cover off airport ops.

Like any insurer, after an accident, rates may go up…..but.

MTV

That's good to know. Thanks!