Paying for aircraft

[Zzz]

BCP aircraft owners: It's none of my business what your financial situation is, or how much money you make, or how you choose to leverage credit, but I don't think I'm alone in wondering how people of seemingly modest means afford the aircraft we fly. I'm doing better than ever in my career and owning again feels a long ways off. I'm resolute about not financing again.

You're either rich and you pay cash, or you're not rich and you save for a long, long time to pay cash, or you finance. I see a lot of aircraft around here that I know are $100K+ birds. To pay cash on a those with a middle class income takes some discipline and years.

I'm just curious about the number of owners who finance, please don't respond with your financials. The poll can be answered anonymously.

Thanks.

Edit: I'm not complaining, just curious having observed some of the metal around here.

[GumpAir]

F**king airplanes have kept me broke for over 41 years now!!!!!

Gump

[Jaerl]

You forgot about the women already?

[GumpAir]

Oh yeah.... Them too.

Gump

[WWhunter]

Zane,
I am not rich by any means. Personally it takes a lot of discipline and sacrafice. Giving up on a lot of other things that I would like to have is the only way I afford planes and flying. I still drive an older vehicle, I rarely drink, don't smoke, gamble or chase women....one caught me and she is pretty good to me (most of the time) so I'll keep her for now.
It's amazing how many guys think I am rich due to aircraft ownership but yet they are driving a $50-60K diesel pick-up towing new boats, 4-wheelers, or snowmobiles that are worth way more than I have invested in my aircraft. Yet they complain they have no money and can't see how I can afford an expensive airplane. This has been hashed out all the time but those types will never 'get it'.
Keith

[z3skybolt]

Zane,

WWHunter stole my thunder but he is so correct. It seems odd at first until you realize that everyone spends their money on different priorities. I was once accussed of being a "rich playboy" by a guy whose bass boat cost more than I had invested in my home built S-1 Pitts!

The guy driving that V-10 powered: jacked up Ford pickup, towing a camper may live in a shack.... as may the guy at the airport taxiing around in a nice Bonanza. And...the guy who owns neither may be living in a 4,000 sq. foot mini-mansion.

Of course some are wealthy and can afford it all. Then there are those in debt up to their ears and don't have a dime in their pocket.

Different strokes for different folks.

Bob

p.s. Remember....it is almost impossible to economically justify owning an aircraft. But if/when you can swing it....rejoin the club.

[EZFlap]

My old 172 cost me less than some R/C model airplanes these days.

But just like WW Hunter, I drive a used car and don't have a lot of other toys. In order to be an airport bum, I've made other notable sacrifices too... my fashion wardrobe consultant is named Clarence (but he actually spells his name CLEARANCE) over at Wally World.

Someday I'm going to splurge and upgrade to the $1.29 burger at Carl's Jr. instead of the 99 cent burgers. That'll be on the day I get the Helio Courier.

I met a cranky old retired police officer once, who had a Bonanza in his hangar across from me. It was parked right next to his bed.

[S-12Flyer]

I suspect the replies you get on this site will vary quite a bit from the ones you would get on a more main stream G.A. site. A lot of Cub owners, t-craft, aeronca's and experimentals here. Not quite the same as King Airs, and Citations. OK the Carbon Cub crowd is up there. Another interesting poll would be a more detailed selection of purchace prices. I would love to know the average price of the typical BCP aircraft.
Anymore, my feeling is that if I can't pay cash for my toys, I can't afford them.

[blackrock]

Zane,
I am not rich by any means. Personally it takes a lot of discipline and sacrafice. Giving up on a lot of other things that I would like to have is the only way I afford planes and flying. I still drive an older vehicle, I rarely drink, don't smoke, gamble or chase women....one caught me and she is pretty good to me (most of the time) so I'll keep her for now.
It's amazing how many guys think I am rich due to aircraft ownership but yet they are driving a $50-60K diesel pick-up towing new boats, 4-wheelers, or snowmobiles that are worth way more than I have invested in my aircraft. Yet they complain they have no money and can't see how I can afford an expensive airplane. This has been hashed out all the time but those types will never 'get it'.
Keith

X2 - well said.

[Jaerl]

I've never made a lot of money but I'll tell you what. If I can afford one toy it will be a plane. I've had about every toy you can imagine from amphibious 8 wheel drive things to snow cats to two wheel drive motorcycles. There is nothing that gives you that feeling like looking at the sunset from the pilot seat does. Just wish I didn't wait so long to start flying.

[SixTwoLeemer]

I'm not rich, I work in aviation so that should speak for itself. Honest living but not too much in excess.

When I turned 35 I decided enough is enough. With a mortgage but no cc/auto debt, I walked into my Credit Union and asked if they did Aircraft loans. The nice lady said " I guess so, we do RV loans all day long..we'll just call it an RV!" Im serious about that. Easiest thing I ever did.

Scared to death, I borrowed 40k for a ramp queen I had my eye on for a while.. it was under priced as the owner finally decided to let her go. I began to fix it up. Ran in to an old friend at a wedding who said he was taking his PPL test the next day. We became partners and I was able to pay off my half-share in 2 months, selling a bunch of stuff I had lost interest in. Good thing because we had to drop a new engine (20k) in it the next year. Flown 400 hours in 4 years which would never had happened had I been renting. Been making numerous improvements as we go and we'll hopefully be ready to upgrade to a 182 soon.

Being an A&P helps with expenses for sure. Working at the airport and mixing with all the players helps with discounts on almost everything involved with ownership too. Thats how I make it work...no trust fund for this cat but I feel like a Kennedy with a new KTM and some wings to fly when I can.

When the home is paid off in the next 2 years, it may be time for a project bush-plane

[low rider]

I ran a skydive center in Tahoe for 10 years. I flew the loads , answered the phones, packed the rigs and did coaching jumps when I could find someone I trusted to fly a few loads.went out of biz and sold the 207 I was running.Took half the$$ and bought a 180 that I can barely afford.Gave the other half to my wife and she did stupid shit like pay bills with it..her half is gone and I still have a 180(that I really can't afford)..... We are all going to die someday, might as well drive a crappy car and own an airplane.I figure that after I ski and motocross my body into oblivion over the next 15/20 years,,,, flying the 180 around like it's going out of style will be about all I can handle. I feel very lucky

[lesuther]

It's amazing how many guys think I am rich due to aircraft ownership but yet they are driving a $50-60K diesel pick-up towing new boats, 4-wheelers, or snowmobiles that are worth way more than I have invested in my aircraft. Yet they complain they have no money and can't see how I can afford an expensive airplane. This has been hashed out all the time but those types will never 'get it'.
Keith

So true. I got my plane for less than either their truck, their boat, their kitchen remodel, their .......sheesh.

I never even bring it up when I'm asked where I went for the weekend.

[TomKatz]

It does seem funny! Once you own a plane, you don't care what you drive.

[RWM]

I'm not rich, but I don't fly like I am either. I was able to get into the first time ownership via partnership. We took three guys that really had no business spending money on flying and collectively "justified" the small price per month/year that covered payment, maintenance, insurance, etc. Worked great, was very affordable, and we had an excellent airplane ('57 182).

On my second plane, one waaaay newer ('59 182), there was just two partners and all went really well. However, over a couple of years, the partner flew less and less, lost interest, and I eventually ended up owning all of the airplane. This allowed me to pay cash for my plane, just half up front and the other half a couple years later. I wouldn't have been able to pay all at once so was great for me.

Both partnerships were successful in accomplishing their intended purpose and nobody ever got cross with another. This, I firmly believe, was the result of forming partnerships with the right people.....compatible, honest people. I would gladly do it again if need be and I recommend it to people looking for a way to make the joy of flying more affordable. Just have to do it with someone you can trust and get along with.

Although I'm a single owner now, a partnership got he here in a way that built experience and flying time in a way that was affordable for each of my financial positions at the time.

[OregonMaule]

Wanted my own plane since college days 1977. Soloed in 1979. Didn't fly after I hired on to the fire dept 1980. Couldn't afford to keep flying.

Bought a new truck, built a new home(which I still live in) got married and had 3 kids. Still married to the same lady. I did 30 years at the FD. I have an addiction problem with things that have motors. Motorcycles, boats, snowmobiles, quads, 4X4s. These addictions slowed down the airplane purchase. But to be honest if I had had a plane in my 20s or 30s I might not be here, I was a bit wild.

By 2000 I was working 56 hour weeks at the FD and had 2 part time jobs. Residential home rentals and the manufacturing business my dad started.

Buy 2006 I had saved enough to finish my private pilot and pay cash for the Maule. I was 48 years old. I did get some financial assistance from my dad and mom. Buy the way there is no such a thing as a free lunch.

My wife is a school teacher and helps her parents run their apartment business. I am still involved in residential home rentals and the manufacturing business my dad started. This pays for the flying. The FD pension pays the basic bills.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Good day...Rob

[GroundLooper]

There are rich people.
And there are airplane owners.

[SkyTruck]

I don't know how I could afford a plane if I didn't do all the maintenance on it.
Insurance, Hangar, fuel, and surprises already cost a ton.... and my plane is paid for.... thank god!

[Darinh]

I've got more money than I know what to do with.... but that's only in my dreams. I got married at 23 and have got 5 boys. My wife has been a stay-at-home mom since 2003 when my first son showed up and I graduated and started working as a civil engineer. I bought my first Kitfox in 2005 the same month I finished my license.

In 2006 I bought a Kitfox Series 7 kit and finished it in 2008 and spend way too much money on it (close to $70k). It had a new Rotax 914 turbo, full glass panel, Airmaster electric CS prop, etc. It was an awesome plane but by the time it was finished, I had 2 sons with the 3rd on the way. Sold it and luckily recouped all my costs (I think I own the record for the highest sale price of a Kitfox at $70k). Parlayed that into a Bearhawk and got sick of building it so it has moved on and I am looking for a straight tail 182.

I like the rest of you, drove a rust bucket to afford flying. I gave up motorcycles, snowmobiles and even RC airplanes for a long time. I have been extremely lucky in my career and have recently worked myself into ownership of my firm and don't drive a rust bucket anymore because the business bought me a new truck. I keep trying to justify a company jet to my partners but I haven't gotten very far on that one. I keep telling my wife that a Quest Kodiak is in our future and she just rolls her eyes at me and says, "Keep dreaming". I will.

[58Skylane]

Pretty much the same story as my friends above. Except I'm just a yahoo trucker for a major motorcycle company based in SoCal. After almost 20 years with the company I've managed to make it up the salary chain to where I make a decent living. The mortgage isn't too bad (thankfully I paid a huge down payment and a conventional fixed rate loan) and I paid for my 58 Skylane with an equity line of credit (before the housing crash ). So I have that payment, too. Plus hangar rent, insurance, utilities, and a couple of other bills. So yeah, I'm pretty much broke I still have my 1995 Bronco and only owe about $1000K on my used 2000 Ford pickup I bought about 3 years ago.

If I can make it through this next couple of years and get some more debt paid off, I'll be looking pretty good. Actually, I'm interested in selling my pick up if anybody if interested

Oh, I really don't spend money on anything else. When I'm home in Idaho, that's a good enough vacation for me