Backcountry Pilot

[182 STOL driver offline]

Does anyone know if Ipad can be hooked to Stec 30 Auto pilot in RV-6a ?? What program (APsor program ) does everyone use for the aviation GPS Ipad ?Also is there a CHEAP flight planning GPS for Windows XP machine (Compaq nc4010) -- Most of the programs approach cost of Ipad. Inquiring minds want to know ? I'm thinking Ipad will be my next GPS -- about 1/3 cost of Garmin 696 and looks great. I only fly VFR so don't need approach plates etc. Just good old Sectionals on Ipad. Thanks Bill Reid you can also send email to [email protected] if not here.

[Jumpy offline]

I saw a Fore Flight system demo'd on an I-Pad a few weeks ago. Looks incredible. As far as I could tell no autopilot interface but charts galore at a very good price.

http://www.foreflight.com/ipad

Steve

[Vick offline]

Most of the reviews I've read from guys using iPads in the cockpit make a point that they are using them as iEFBs, not as actual GPSs - not to say you can't, just so far most aren't. Another point to consider is that only the 3G model has an embedded GPS, the wifi only model emulates a GPS. I ordered a 3G iPad (hopefully arriving in teh next day or so) with the intent to load full sectional coverage with Sky Charts (skycharts.net) in place of a stack of paper sectionals. Who knows though, if it follows the plane it may well work as a Garminx96 replacement.

AC 120-76A (http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guida ... enDocument) breaks EFBs down into Class 1, 2, and 3. As I read it, Class 1 refers to devices that do not integrate with the aircraft in any way - which is how most are using the iPad now (iCub notwithstanding). I imagine if you want your iPad to talk to your plane you'd have to do the homework on Class 2 & 3.

[porterjet offline]

I have a whopping one flight using my maxipad and foreflight software so far. Playing rather than using might be more accurate. It was at high altitude and overseas so this may not help, the only map is a regular road map similar to what you see with mapquest for the overseas flying. Somehow I had a wifi connection sitting on the ramp, good position with the GPS etc. After takeoff and clearing the local pattern I got the pad back out and it was still tracking our position. It even worked with electric windshield heat.

Unfortunately about an hour after takeoff I ran off the edge of the world, or at least off the maps that had been loaded while sitting on the ramp. I turned it off at that point. About 2 hours later I got bored and turned it back on but it never did find our position again. Maybe at low altitude it could use the cell towers to assist the GPS but at altitude it just could not figure out where we were. I gave it about 10 minutes. Our mechanics iPhone has the same problem while my Nokia phone will find us in a matter of seconds. I have the feeling that Apple is using a very basic GPS chipset.

[Green Hornet offline]

Bill,
Review the attached it may provide some solutions for you.
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/wingx-pr ... 2082?mt=8#
Clear Right
BlackWidow
Bill

[guycole offline]

Hello. I develop applications for iPad (et al) and Android.

Probably the only two mechanisms to connect any outside device would be USB cable or bluetooth. And of course, there would have to be "an app for that".

The GPS hardware on these platforms is restricted by energy budget and consumer price. They work well enough as a consumer appliance, but I won't be removing my 430 any time soon.

As mentioned in a previous response, these platforms need a live network connection to fully work (map datum). I will search for WiFi beacons (if enabled) and cell phone towers (if platform supports 3G). Both of these features require network access to an external database (to map the emitter to a location). Finally, I will ask the GPS which might take some time depending on the last fix, etc. Apple preaches we should ask the GPS last and infrequently to preserve battery life, so you cannot count on the GPS being active.

If you are low and slow, this might all work out for you. It hasn't been working for me in Northern California where I typically fly at 7500 or so.

Of course, the next version will fix EVERYTHING!

[Green Hornet offline]

Hi Guy,
I was wondering how well 3G would work in an aviation environment. Considering that there are parts of the Southwest and Northwest that don't have 3 G coverage I suspected a weakness. Never mind any altitude over 3000 ft. the write ups sound great but reality is always something else. I'm not sure if any portable device would interface with an auto pilot?
Thanks for your technical input.
Bill

[Green Hornet offline]

Max Trescott reviewed the ipad and app. He said a 10000 ft limit?
http://www.maxtrescott.com/max_trescott ... ngers.html

[Vick offline]

I think all the points above are why folks are using the iPad as an EFB rather than a pure navigation device. I only intend to reference cached sectionals, same as I'd use a paper sectional.

[Green Hornet offline]

Bill Reid I would look into this as a matter of fact I am! Ads_B for 1200.00 on an Ipad sounds good to me!
That is less then a Garmin 396 with a Zoan TIS.
http://www.skyradar.net/

[Zzz]

As much as I love my iPhone and admire the iPad, I would never let one control my auto-pilot. It slows down, locks up, goes unresponsive for 30 seconds at a time. 99% of the time it works flawlessly, but occasionally it will get retarded.

[182 STOL driver offline]

As much as I love my iPhone and admire the iPad, I would never let one control my auto-pilot. It slows down, locks up, goes unresponsive for 30 seconds at a time. 99% of the time it works flawlessly, but occasionally it will get retarded.

Zane your a computer geek -- what is a good program /app for the Ipad ? how about a program (GPS) for windows xp ?

[Zzz]

As much as I love my iPhone and admire the iPad, I would never let one control my auto-pilot. It slows down, locks up, goes unresponsive for 30 seconds at a time. 99% of the time it works flawlessly, but occasionally it will get retarded.

Zane your a computer geek -- what is a good program /app for the Ipad ? how about a program (GPS) for windows xp ?

Bill, it seems all the good EFS and MFD apps, both for iPad and the Windows tablets, currently command a pretty hefty price. For iPad, Foreflight and WingX Pro7 look to be the leaders.

For Windows tablets, APIC Pro, Anywhere Map, etc. There are always ads for them in AOPA Pilot.

They all seem to be in the $70+ dollar range for the jus the software. They get you through both purchase price and annual subscription.

[Green Hornet offline]

Bill,
Also it has been acknowledged that the 3G will not work consistently as a GPS moving map because of multiple cell sites pinging at the same time and the over 10000 ft poor coverage. Getting electronic versions of charts and info is nice but the key is a reliable GPS. Since the progress on ADS-B has advanced so rapidly I suspect it will become a requirement before to long. Having a portable device (Sky Radar) that communicates via WI Fi In your cabin to your Ipad is sweet. If you get the top of line IPAD 64GB with WIFI & 3G @ a cost of 829.00 + $1200.00 for the Sky Radar device and $28.00 bucks a month you have an excellent VFR package sans auto pilot control that can do it all!
I would think that in a year or two Sky Radar will have competition from Garmin and others for the portable ADS-B market with Traffic info collision avoidance system. A Garmin 696 with a ZOAN XRX is currently $3800.00 and no ADS-B coverage and weather is extra with XM monthly cost of 35.00.
I would wait a while if you can to see how things unfold.

[porterjet offline]

I agree, I would feel awfully weird letting my ipad run my autopilot.
I found out on another forum that you can turn off cell and wifi services and that will force the GPS to work, on the right models of course. I'll try that the next time we fly which may not be for another 10 days or so.
It is too bad that foreflight will not save what they call "flight rules" maps which are very similar to what you see with mapquest. You can get those worldwide and would be handy when the boss comes up and asks what lake we are passing. But shut down the ipad once and they are all gone. Our modern G2 (LMAO) does not have moving maps.
Jeppesen has said their release of JeppTC was intentionally very basic, they want input from users and will upgrade it. Someday.

[flightlogic offline]

Sort of unrelated... sort of not: Have been "noticing" on the i phone in flight at around 7500 msl that the data delivered from i weathr.com works pretty well. Not that I am advocating saving XM fees each month or anything. BUT, I get a pretty good... fairly recent image from NEXRAD radar for the area my nose is pointing at 150mph. The T-storms are easy to see and route around. And I haven't paid any more than I would already for carrying the i phone.
Bill, I thought you rigged 182's !?!?!?! Just trim it and let her fly. Who needs a damn autopilot? With GPS now days... your chances of getting run into headfirst by a student pilot have gone way up. All they have to do is pick the wrong altitude for their heading... and bore sight down a line per the GPS. If you are doing the same going the opposite way, it could ruin your day. Let the plane wander a bit. Just pulling your leg a bit Bill. If you like autopilots, you probably use cruise control too!

[emflys offline]

I have a Garmin GPS 10 Bluetooth external GPS antenna that I used to use with my Anywheremap on Dell X51. It is WAAS enabled. I keep hoping that Apple will allow serial communication with an external device. I think you can hack it, but I don't want to do that. Then it would be a lot more functional as a added tool, or back up for navigation in the cockpit.

[cyberbiker offline]

The iPad 3G has a GPS chip in it that apparently works well with ForeFlight Mobile HD. Here is a video demonstrating the iPad 3G by ForeFlight's cofounder and principle developer.

Specific to the thread question, there are a few NMEA 0183 apps for the iPhone and iPad, such as the $11.99 NMEAremote that can send data an autopilot. You'll note when you click the "more" link in the Description Section of the NMEAremote webpage, it specifies that you can "connect your iPad to all your NMEA devices over WLAN with a NMEA RS232/WiFi converter such as iMux, iAIS, Seamate 1A LITE," a USB/Bluetooth dongle or an RS232/Bluetooth adapter, depending on the autopilot. Nearly all recent popular aviation autopilots are NMEA capable. Several websites address connecting it to marine autopilots.

For example, the TruTrak Digitrak User Guide, says to "Consult your GPS manual for NMEA output setup. The autopilot must have a direct connection with the handheld GPS to provide the autopilot with RS-232" and suggests you might install a "9 pin D subminature connector in your panel." Then an adapter as simple as the $3 Cablestobuy USB 2.0 to 9 Pin RS232 Serial Convert Adapter might be all you need to power and transfer data from the iPad.

While the iPad is not certified for IFR flight, it would certainly be an inexpensive GPS and flight information assistant under IFR, or could couple with the autopilot on VFR flights for experimental aircraft.