Backcountry Pilot

[Zzz]

Read the petition.

This guy named David Wartofsky is petitioning the FAA to change medical certification requirements for operation of aircraft weighing less than 6,000 lbs max gross. His argument is that pilot medical certification is not consistent with the risks and liability of aircraft while larger more massive vehicles can be operated (even commercially) with only a driver's license, and that the actuarial data from insurance companies reflects this.

I tend to agree, though the max gross upper limit he's proposing might need to come down a little. However, one good thing about medical certification, even 3rd class, is that we are checked on a periodic basis throughout our flying careers by an objective party. For me, at age 36, I'll have enjoyed the 5 year 3rd class now twice. 10 years worth of certification for 2 flight physicals: Appropriate for my age. However, I prob would not have gotten any vision or hearing testing, or had my scrotum fondled by another man were it not for this requirement to exercise my Private Pilot privileges. Probably a good thing for men, who tend to eschew checkups.

However, some guys who've stopped getting medical certifications and have resigned themselves to light sport rules may have compromised and escalating vision or hearing conditions (likely the reason they elected not to renew their medical) that they continue to live with that actually do pose a safety risk, though they are actually obligated to ground themselves. It's the honor system, and we know that doesn't always work well. Do driver's license renewals generally require the vision test? Frankly, I can't remember. This kind of concern isn't really limited to pilots. There are many older and increasingly impaired drivers out there too.

The argument could be made that since a private pilot can fly into a Class B airspace and get friendly with other aircraft carrying potentially hundreds of passengers, that those risks justify certification. I say we would get a lot more mileage out of enhancing the BFR program to address issues like this. Let a CFI determine if the pilot has any impairments that affect his/her ability to operate in a positively controlled environment.

I do find it ridiculous though that the regs allow one to fly a Kitfox with no medical cert, but not a C152. The sentiment of the light sport medical certification requirements needs to apply to all light aircraft under 3,500 lbs operated for personal flights under Part 91, in my opinion.

I doubt any of you will have any opinions on this...haha.

[OscarDeuce offline]

Agree, but I say lose the gross weight limit completely. It's irrelevant. Pilots carrying passengers for hire should need to pass a phisical. Private pilots and perhaps some commercial pilots - no. Not gonna happen though. The FAA, like all government agencies is owned by big business. Commercial airlines are big business and they've done a lot of lobbying to get the FAA to keep us out of "their" airspace and airports. Furthermore, budding communist police states like the one we now live in don't want ordinary folks like you and I to have the kind of freedom flying an airplane brings. In the last 10 years, they've actually made medical criteria more stringent (like maximum acceptable blood pressure limits). Medical certification, or rather denial thereof, is one of the ways the government uses to reduce our ranks.

Best,
O-2

[TomD offline]

I dunno.

I have visions of my blind in one eye 94 year old father flying a light plane, he still has a driver's license....fair warning to anyone living in Clayton County, GA.

TD

[Zzz]

I dunno.

I have visions of my blind in one eye 94 year old father flying a light plane, he still has a driver's license....fair warning to anyone living in Clayton County, GA.

TD

Well, the only thing keeping him from doing that currently is his motivational level, ability to get a BFR signed off, and his interpretation of "medical self-certification."

[Mongo offline]

Turn your head and cough

Sent from my HTC Evo using Tapatalk

[onceAndFutr_alaskaflyer offline]

I dunno.

I have visions of my blind in one eye 94 year old father flying a light plane, he still has a driver's license....fair warning to anyone living in Clayton County, GA.

TD

Well, the only thing keeping him from doing that currently is his motivational level, ability to get a BFR signed off, and his interpretation of "medical self-certification."

...and $ liability risk tolerance.

[WWhunter offline]

Unfortunatly this petition is dated 2009. My opinion is that the guys/gals that are skirting the medical are going to fly anyways if they have a medical or not. Personally I think the 3rd class medical is a joke and just an additional "control" issue from our glorious government. I person can go in, pass the medical and drop dead from a heart attack the next day.
I am all for the elimination of the 3rd class medical for private pilots. The issue is where do you draw the line?
WW

[onceAndFutr_alaskaflyer offline]

Agree, but I say lose the gross weight limit completely. It's irrelevant. Pilots carrying passengers for hire should need to pass a phisical. Private pilots and perhaps some commercial pilots - no. Not gonna happen though. The FAA, like all government agencies is owned by big business. Commercial airlines are big business and they've done a lot of lobbying to get the FAA to keep us out of "their" airspace and airports. Furthermore, budding communist police states like the one we now live in don't want ordinary folks like you and I to have the kind of freedom flying an airplane brings. In the last 10 years, they've actually made medical criteria more stringent (like maximum acceptable blood pressure limits). Medical certification, or rather denial thereof, is one of the ways the government uses to reduce our ranks.

Best,
O-2

The first non-military aeromedical standards for pilots in the USA were established in 1926. At that time they developed differing standards for private pilots/student pilots, commercial and transport pilots.

Since then changes in the aviation medical certification scheme can all be directly traced to two main causes: improvements in medical knowledge, and stupid pilot tricks.

I agree that the third class is overly strict, and might perhaps best go away completely. But you are fighting history here, history much longer than the communo-fascist government actions you've observed

[z3skybolt offline]

Agree, but I say lose the gross weight limit completely. It's irrelevant. Pilots carrying passengers for hire should need to pass a phisical. Private pilots and perhaps some commercial pilots - no. Not gonna happen though. The FAA, like all government agencies is owned by big business. Commercial airlines are big business and they've done a lot of lobbying to get the FAA to keep us out of "their" airspace and airports. Furthermore, budding communist police states like the one we now live in don't want ordinary folks like you and I to have the kind of freedom flying an airplane brings. In the last 10 years, they've actually made medical criteria more stringent (like maximum acceptable blood pressure limits). Medical certification, or rather denial thereof, is one of the ways the government uses to reduce our ranks.

Best,
O-2

O-2,

Try telling that to the more than 200 pilots I helped facilitate regaining their first class physicals. Including those who had heart bypass: stroke, cancer, alcoholism, brain tumors, depression, even a sex change from male to female, and everything in between. The FAA did everything in their power to help those guys and gals get back in the cockpit. Dr. Audie Davis... for many years head of the FAA's aeromedical division in Oklahoma City once told me...."the hardest thing I ever have to do is deny an airman their certificate." "If there is anyway it can be done I will reissue it." Heck...about 20 years ago they even recertified a pilot who had a heart transplant. He later died in flight, flying a helicopter. That ended the heart transplant recertification program.

Tell that to my 78 year old flight instructor friend who maintains his flight physical despite having multiple stints put in his arteries, several feet of his colan removed, high blood pressure and macular degeneration. Between special testing, physical waivers and demonstrated ability waivers....he keeps a 3rd class physical.

Having been deeply involved in Aeromedial Certification.....I can attest that most pilots cause their own problems by not following proper certification proceedures or failure to seek out experienced AMEs, knowledgable in walking them through their medical difficulties. There is a medical group, headed by Dr. Don Hudson in Denver, that will get any pilot recertified if it is humanly possible. Great bunch of doctors.

The certification branch(the guys who give you your licence) can be pretty nasty. But the Aeromedical division, which is seperate...try very hard to see that we can keep our medicals.

Best Wishes,

bob

[mtv offline]

I dunno.

I have visions of my blind in one eye 94 year old father flying a light plane, he still has a driver's license....fair warning to anyone living in Clayton County, GA.

TD

There are pilots out there flying right now with a FIRST class medical who have only one eye. All that takes is a Statement of Demonstrated Ability, or SODA.

Zane,

I just renewed my driver's license here, and indeed, they did require me to take a vision test. Not a very stringent one, but not much different than a class III medical standard.


I think the sport pilot rule is actually pretty good, but the aircraft which qualify should be expanded to some higher GW number (arbitrarily 2000 pounds???) left at two seats, and maybe changed a bit on speed. And, exclude them from Bravo airspace, for example, if you're really worried about some geezer like me creating havoc in LAX. Who the heck wants to go to Bravo airspace anyway?

MTV
MTV

[obxbushpilot offline]

Th

However, one good thing about medical certification, even 3rd class, is that we are checked on a periodic basis throughout our flying careers by an objective party. For me, at age 36, I'll have enjoyed the 5 year 3rd class now twice. 10 years worth of certification for 2 flight physicals: Appropriate for my age.

I turned 43 this past year. I am required to renew my 3rd Class biannually. The 5 year rule sounds good. I never got to use it.

My Doctor is one of the good ones though. He's a local pilot. I've gotten medicals in Houston and in LA also in the past and its hard to find a good FAA recognized doctor. I have had sevearal medicals in the past from doctors that were not pilots. These seemed to have a more clinical air about them. Since I relocated here 5 years ago, I have had 2 medicals that seemed fit for purpose although I did get my first restriction this past visit. I must keep reading glasses with me now, but my eyesight requires it anyway.

[hotrod180 offline]

.....
I think the sport pilot rule is actually pretty good, but the aircraft which qualify should be expanded to some higher GW number (arbitrarily 2000 pounds???) left at two seats, and maybe changed a bit on speed. And, exclude them from Bravo airspace, for example.....

I feel the same. Maybe some sort of cross between the sport pilot & recreational pilot definitions. Although if it's OK for a pilot without a medical cert to carry one passenger, what's wrong with carrying three? If you recall, the recreational pilot can fly a 4 place airplane like a 172 but can only carry one passenger. I guess they wanted to keep the bloodshed to an acceptable level.

[Zzz]

Consider the original argument: The risk capacity to kill and destroy property of a 2000 lb airplane losing control from incapacitated operator is still less than that of an 80,000 lb big rig driven by Jabba the Hut and his out of control hypertension.

Is the difference here the passengers' capacity to take over? To survive operator incapacitation?

[AlpineTCraft offline]

I thought that medical requirements were as follows

1st class - 6 months

2nd class - 1 year

3rd class - 2 years >40
3 years <40

please let me know if things have changes as i am 25 and my 3 years just came up.

[Zzz]

3rd class - 2 years >40
3 years <40

please let me know if things have changes as i am 25 and my 3 years just came up.

Things have changed. If you're under 40, your 3rd class is valid for 5 years.

See CFR 14 Part 61.23d "Duration of medical certificate."

[AlpineTCraft offline]

thanks so much for the info! i was just about to go renew mine haha

[flyer offline]

That is age discrimination.

flyer

[onceAndFutr_alaskaflyer offline]

3rd class - 2 years >40
3 years <40

please let me know if things have changes as i am 25 and my 3 years just came up.

Things have changed. If you're under 40, your 3rd class is valid for 5 years.

See CFR 14 Part 61.23d "Duration of medical certificate."

Wait...I thought NOTHING EVER improves in the government?

[courierguy offline]

I am flying under the Sport Pilot rules, I never failed a 3 rd class, but I quit while I was ahead.

But, I still have to take a pretty comprehensive physical to maintain my CDL, (which makes more sense to me while driving my 40,000 lb. boom truck down a busy two lane road as compared to flying my 720 lb 2 place airplane out in the middle of nowhere, as far as perceived risk) at least during the fondling part, it was an attractive female doc, that was a first for me, and when she told me to drop my pants I made REAL sure I had heard her correctly before doing so!

[qmdv offline]

Read the petition.

one good thing about medical certification, even 3rd class, is that we are checked on a periodic basis throughout our flying careers by an objective party. For me, at age 36, I'll have enjoyed the 5 year 3rd class now twice. 10 years worth of certification for 2 flight physicals: Appropriate for my age. However, I prob would not have gotten any vision or hearing testing, or had my scrotum fondled by another man were it not for this requirement to exercise my Private Pilot privileges. Probably a good thing for men, who tend to eschew checkups.

To my knowledge, having your nut sack fondled is not a requirment for a 3rd class. I have had only one doc do that and he was ugly. Not saying it is not a good idea to have your earnies checked as long as he does not wisper in your ear.

Tim