Backcountry Pilot

[Skydive206 offline]

I’m starting to build my own air strip. It is a horse pasture 1350ft long fence to fence with a 2% slope. The launch area is high ground with fair drainage, grass land with black loam soil, take off down hill and land up hill everytime. I will be flying my Cessna 206s with IO550s, big props, Sportsman, Wing-X, 8.50x6 mains with 7.00x6 nose, at a gross weight of 3600lbs. I’m no stranger to grass and dirt but It was mostly sandy, compact, and well drained. Would there be any one here that could tell me the most cost effective medium for a good launch pad? I would like to hold the brakes and set max power and get rolling. How long and wide of a concrete pad or what size gravel wouldn’t get into the prop, Large roll of used carpet? Etc. Would even larger mains and nose wheel really reduce takeoff roll? If so how much? What are the best grasses that hold up to a lot of use? Directions to written resources would be great. Van

[mr scout offline]

Sounds like you already have the most cost effective pad (grass) We have 2700ft of soil cement it was about the most cost effective product at the time and probably still is. Would be great for just a pad and very inexpensive compared to pavement or concrete. We spray it with SS1H every year and now kind of wish we never would have started coating it.

[patrol guy offline]

In Ohio, a grass by the name of "Kentucky Fescue 31" is one of the best grasses. It stands up to both droughts, and wet conditions. It also stands up to lots of traffic well. It was the grass they used on football fields for years. I have it on my strip and am happy.

[qmdv offline]

I do nt think full power holding the breaks is the best anyway. I have 1100 ft with much less slope (no fences) and I do a full power from a turn (never stop the plane). I think you get more prop grab that way. 2% means that the low end is 27ft lower than the high end. Have you shot it with an instrument? Most folks are poor judges of slope.

Grass? Do you have plenty of water? Stream bank wheat grass is good draught tolerant. I have planted creeping red fescue. Look up grass for football field use. Nothing is beat up as much as a football field. Smiley Creek Idaho has blue grass planted.

I am blessed with an abuntant supply of water (tell Kalifornia takes it a way for the comon good)

Oh and I fly a stock 182B out of 2600 ft elevation.

Tim

[qmdv offline]

Oh and Patrole Guy has as nice of stip as I have landed on. Is it sub irrigated or do you use rain birds?

I can either flood or use a rain gun.

Tim

[58Skylane offline]

I do nt think full power holding the breaks is the best anyway. I have 1100 ft with much less slope (no fences) and I do a full power from a turn (never stop the plane). I think you get more prop grab that way. 2% means that the low end is 27ft lower than the high end. Have you shot it with an instrument? Most folks are poor judges of slope.

Grass? Do you have plenty of water? Stream bank wheat grass is good draught tolerant. I have planted creeping red fescue. Look up grass for football field use. Nothing is beat up as much as a football field. Smiley Creek Idaho has blue grass planted.

I am blessed with an abuntant supply of water (tell Kalifornia takes it a way for the comon good)

Oh and I fly a stock 182B out of 2600 ft elevation.

Tim

Hey Tim, when do you grab your flaps? Before your take off roll or just after when you get some speed up? I guess it would depend on the softness/hardness of your strip at the time??

[Skydive206 offline]

Thanks for the fast reply guys. The power on turn would be to the right onto the runway. My pilots already complain that they dont have enough nose wheel steering to the right after setting the rudder trim for winter takeoffs. This is in Missouri so Ill be cutting more grass than watering it.. The slope was measued using a couple of diffent geographic sorces. The top 300ft run is flatter then the slope steepens and settles more level again at the last 200. Any opinion on Tires? Any data on rolling resistance?

[Skydive206 offline]

My aircraft have the electric position select flaps but mashing the power on the tuned 550 you can have your hands full and the flaps are kind of slow. Would the blow down effect from the flaps 20 be a greater benifit for reducing takeoff roll in grass? Rutan had a program of using "high speed flaps". Flaps that quickly moved down from 0 to a preselect for stol takeoffs. My Twin Otters flaps 30 takeoff is a show stopper but if one engine spits you have to cut the good engine and crash straight ahead.

[gbflyer offline]

Skydive with your experience I think we should be asking you about max. gross take - offs from a short field.

Only thing that I could add to is your tire question. I'll bet the 8.50 X 6 and 7.00 on the nose would be a good combination. If you start cutting up your sod too much, the 8.50X10 on the mains and 8.50X6 on the nose might help that some, but probably not a lot. It does add a good amount of prop clearance though, which is a real bonus. I would think that your idea of starting on a clean concrete pad would be a smart way to go, but I do dabble in the concrete business so my opinion may be a bit skewed.

gb

[wirsig offline]

Where in MO is this gonna be skydive206?

[Skydive206 offline]

Ive got the Gross takeoffs and empty weight landings but I dont have experience with that loam soil under the grass. A large roll behind a tractor should fix the rutts. Looks like Im going to be over a hundred miles from Clinton, MO. As soon as I close and get the planes on it, Ill post and brag.

[River rat offline]

Ive flown a 206 with 29in mains and they really help the take off because with tip extensions and a sportsman, the tail hitting the ground limits your AOA. so the bigger tires are manditory to take full advantage of the STOL mods. The 206 I have experience with has robertson/sportsman/wingX STOL, VGs, a 550, blackmak prop and bushwheels on the mains and a 8.50 on the nose and routinely goes out of 1300ft at gross at around 2000asl. I know all 206's wont do what it does but yours sounds fairly well set up. Even 8.50s all around would make a noticable diference but if you are landing mostly grass I would check out the 29/11/10s from ABW. thats my.02

[lowflyinG3 offline]

Got a lot of experience in repitition operations off of grass. My input would be to pour an acceleration pad. If you're gonna run the Otter off of it make it like 25' wide and go about 500' or so. If not 20' wide. You run into a summer with no rain and no matter what kind of grass you've got it's gonna be non-existent and turn to a dust bowl/mudhole, prop dinger after a couple of consecutive 20-30 load days.
I also feel that no matter how well it drains you're in the midwest and you get a real dumper t-storm rolling through and then clear right up while they're standing around wanting to go it's nice to have a couple of hundred hard feet to get moving on such a short strip to begin with. Also if you get a Porter or Sinlge Otter visiting with the thrust line pointing down it'll compound that factor. Soft field take off in a 206 with big nosewheel isn't much better either though,nose up. I flew the Otter, Porter and Caravan at Skydive Dallas for a while. We always ended up with about a 200 foot rough black hole starting right where we powered up.
You're gonna be pushing those 206's on a quarter mile in the summer with pilot plus six even with the 550.
I had a 185 with a 550 and speed brakes that I flew at Quantum Leap in Sullivan, MO. for a summer so I know what that hot, sticky air feels like there. Be careful.
I noticed your Otter is an old Papa Mike! Got a lot of old memories of 122PM myself. Take care of that one.
Bite the bullet and buy a few yards of concrete, then it's done. Most of the ag strips I fly off of now have the same setup and it works for high cycle operations. Five, six takeoffs every few days is one thing, hammerin. the crap out of it with multiple aircraft over and over is another.

[Skydive206 offline]

You know my pain! I dont expect the Otter to do that much work from the strip but I would expect the Cessnas to do 10 flights a day on the weekends. We would reduce loads for the conditions, etc. but if the work is there the pressure is to get it done.

[wirsig offline]

Something we use a around Missouri for soil stabilization is geotextile fabric under rock or soil. When building roads, if we have a spot that keep pumping out because of the trucks we just level the ruts, roll the fabric, then place rock on top. It spreads the load horizontally through the fabric instead of sinking straight down through the soil.
We get ours from Carter-Waters in KC for something like $400/roll.

[Nizina offline]

FAA helped sponsor a seminar up here in Alaska on building sod airstrips just this August. It was written up in the Anchorage Daily News at the following site: http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/aviation ... 95260.html

The center piece of the recommendation is to use "Red Fescue" grass seed. It is hardy down to about -40F and quite resilient in drought conditions as well. Our runway is planted with a mixture of Red Fescue and Kentucky Rye, and although our airstrip is now 2,200 feet in length, it used to be only 1,100 feet before we extended it a few years ago.

Although I am now flying a Husky with 31s, I used to fly a C-182 in and out of the strip with 8.50-10s on the mains and a 8.50-6 on the nose. My neighbor regularly flew a C-185 (550) out of there with 8.50-6s (he is now on 29s). As a general rule, we only have to mow the runway twice during the summer. We get a few guys that land here now with smaller than 8.50-6s and they have done fine so far.

Of course the bears love to eat the grass, so they can be a hazard to watch out for.

Following is the news article on Red Fescue for the runway:

"Experiment Farm growing grass that saves planes
RUNWAYS: Turf-covered landing strips can avoid problems caused by gravel.
By RINDI WHITE
[email protected]
Published: August 11th, 2009 06:13 PM
Last Modified: August 11th, 2009 10:15 PM
PALMER -- Amid test plots of lettuce and barley, researchers at Matanuska Experiment Farm on Trunk Road are testing turf aimed at cutting down on airplane dents and dings.
Story tools
University of Alaska Fairbanks Agriculture and Horticulture Agent Stephen Brown said the turf grass, a red fescue variety, is inexpensive to grow. It doesn't need a lot of water and is hardy enough to grow on gravel runway strips.
"I planted my lawn in it. The cold weather doesn't kill it, and it can stand up to drought. It has very low nutrition requirements as far as fertilizer," Brown said.
The grass grows readily around Barrow, he said. That's an indication of how Alaska-hardy it is. And if fertilized correctly, it will stay about 10-12 inches tall without constant mowing, he said.
"As we've gone out and done surveys on runways, most that have grass on them now, the grass just popped up. Or the grass is being maintained, and they're following the same process as homeowners (maintaining a lawn)," he said.
Brown is hoping to persuade small airstrip owners to switch to turf instead of gravel. It would help them slash maintenance costs, he said.
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"It's a huge problem," he said. "When airplanes land, take off and taxi, the gravel kicks up in the propellers, gets in the engine and can actually punch right through the fabric of planes."
Brown is holding a workshop for small private runway owners to learn more about the grass runways from 2-4 p.m. Aug. 18 at the UAF Cooperative Extension Service office in Palmer. The office is in Suite 2 at 809 S. Chugach Street.
The workshop will cover runway preparation, grass selection, fertilizer strategies and techniques for getting the grass to grow, and soil sampling and interpretation. Brown said the extension service will help participants and others interested in growing grass runways. They won't supply grass seed but will offer tips on growing it, he said.
Melvin Wick, who operates Wick Air, an aircraft maintenance shop near Trunk Road, said gravel nicks and dings are a minor maintenance issue that can become particularly bad in coastal areas, where gravel nicks will open a plane up to corrosion from saltwater. In the Valley, he said, the problems from gravel aren't major."

[Skydive206 offline]

Thank you guys. I like the Geo mesh idea. Relitively cheap, rolls would fit in the 206, 2 guys could put it down, and would keep the good looks of grass. I would like to just put it over the established grass, seed it with the fescues, and let the grass grow in around it. I think this would improve the number of days and loads I could get out. If it didnt work out for me I would have to go with the concreate pad.

[Skydive206 offline]

Made the offer on the ranch. Flew a couple of approaches, need to cut a few trees and level the ground in a coupe of spots with a box blade. Wife kind of thinks its tight but I'm sure she will get use to hitting the touchdown zone. A lot of work to make it the way I want but it should be fun.

[Skydive206 offline]

Filled out my FAA Notice of Landing Area Proposal form today. County Commisioner says no Conditional use permit required "Go have a good time, Lots of guys do it" I asked for and received an Email stating such. Should close Escrow by the Jan 29th. It doesnt quite meet the "back country flying" qualifications a little more like "back yard flying". Hope Im still welcome here. I dont see a Back Yard Pilot Foum starting anytime soon.
[googlemap]http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Williamsburg,+Callaway,+Missouri&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=39.235538,78.837891&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=FX7gUQIdyb6I-g&split=0&hq=&hnear=Williamsburg,+Callaway,+Missouri&ll=38.918084,-91.682582&spn=0.009433,0.02738&t=h&z=16[/googlemap]

[58Skylane offline]

Filled out my FAA Notice of Landing Area Proposal form today. County Commisioner says no Conditional use permit required "Go have a good time, Lots of guys do it" I asked for and received an Email stating such. Should close Escrow by the Jan 29th. It doesnt quite meet the "back country flying" qualifications a little more like "back yard flying". Hope Im still welcome here. I dont see a Back Yard Pilot Foum starting anytime soon.

Congratulations!! But (and I really don't mean to be a naysayer!!), I think I would want to get more than just an email from the County Commissioner. I'd be after an official letter with his signature on it. I don't know, that's just me.

Good luck with your venture! Hope it goes well for you!