Is halon still the best option available for an on-board, all-purpose aviation fire extinguisher?

Thanks,

-DP

IMHO, yes.

CW

This is a good question. Based on my research Halon is by far the best. Other types are corrosive especially to aluminum.

I've been wondering about the best size to carry? I'm packing a 2.5 extinguisher with a total weight of 5 lbs. I wonder if the smaller 1lb types are adequate for cockpit use. I'd like to unload the extra weight if so.

This is a good question...I am interested to since my plane doesnt have one. Size and type.

I have a standard 5# Halon--mounted it to the seat frame. I wouldn't trust anything smaller to have enough, if I ever need it. Of course, it's like a lot of other emergency equipment--you hope to gosh you never need it.

Cary

Halon is bad stuff to breathe, so I was told to hyperventilate while grabbing it, hold breath, shoot fire, open door/window & ventilate, then breathe. It's a gas, not powder so can't shoot it in a windy cockpit. I've been told by fire-people that it's the best as it seeks the fire's heat & removes the oxygen. (I think)

I know that Halon displaces 02 and obviously makes it very effective for extinguishing fires. It can be very bad when it is discharged in a confined space (i.e. aircraft cockpit) when humans are present and do not have appropriate breathing apparatus. A very tragic situation occurred at my place of employment (Idaho National Lab) about 14 years ago when a halon system was not properly tagged out. It discharged and trapped about 6 workers in a building. It resulted in one fatality and multiple serious injuries. Proceed with caution.......

I wonder what the most likely scenario is for most of us? Although either is possible, it seems the most likely fire scenario is on the ground attempting an engine start or fueling. I don't have anything to back that up except noting that starters and wires get hot, engines backfire, sparks while fueling, etc.

In flight??? God forbid as that would be almost impossible to deal with and I don't suppose the dusters would be fun in a cockpit environment either. In the air, I think it is the Jesus plan as in "hello Jesus here we come" unless we are low enough to land in under 20 seconds! Hey, another good reason to stay near 500' agl! (remember, I live in Nevada )

I'm assuming a ground based fire, primarily. Although I'd certainly try the extinguisher in the air if it ever came to that.

blackrock wrote:I wonder what the most likely scenario is for most of us? Although either is possible, it seems the most likely fire scenario is on the ground attempting an engine start or fueling. I don't have anything to back that up except noting that starters and wires get hot, engines backfire, sparks while fueling, etc.

In flight??? God forbid as that would be almost impossible to deal with and I don't suppose the dusters would be fun in a cockpit environment either. In the air, I think it is the Jesus plan as in "hello Jesus here we come" unless we are low enough to land in under 20 seconds! Hey, another good reason to stay near 500' agl! (remember, I live in Nevada )

I'm assuming a ground based fire, primarily. Although I'd certainly try the extinguisher in the air if it ever came to that.

I was just thinking along the same lines when I read this post. It would be interesting to do a statistical analysis of fire extinguisher use related to aircraft. I bet in most cases, inflight fire incidence are related to smoldering wires generating smoke. This should be a short term problem as amperage drawn should pop the cb. Unless they are Chinese made then you are fuked. This case scenario should only require a small sized extinguisher.
Ignition of accumulated fuel during on ground starting is a likely scenario, OR post crash fire. In both incidences the aircraft is on the ground and involving gasoline. This is where having the biggest fire extinguisher possible makes sense.

Worst case scenario is having an in flight fuel fed fire I doubt if any sized fire extinguisher will be much help. That will be the time to make your peace with God,cause you will be done.

If trapped inside after a crash and then fire I would rather be squirting my fire extinguisher than watching the fire and thinking, I wish I had installed a fire extinguisher.

Mine is one of the little Halon extinguishers mounted where I can reach it from the seat.

This is a link to an article on the subject. The comments are more interesting than the article IMHO...

http://www.avweb.com/blogs/insider/AVwebInsider_Fireblog_204261-1.html

If I am not mistaken, Halon manufacture was halted somewhere near 2000 and existing extinguishers are using "reclaimed" Halon. I think 1301 is the gaseous version.

The mfg. may have restarted since people like Google, Amazon, Microsoft, etc. have a real need to fight fires in their server farms with something that does not trash the electronics.

TD

TomD wrote:The mfg. may have restarted since people like Google, Amazon, Microsoft, etc. have a real need to fight fires in their server farms with something that does not trash the electronics.

TD

I am fairly sure they'd be using carbon dioxide inundation systems wouldn't they?

With an in-flight fire, you'd have to wonder whether opening all the windows and accellerating would make things better or worse? With the huge windows in the Bearhawk I'd like to imagine you could create enough draft to blow out small electrical fires if the extinguisher failed.

I just got a very lightweight car extinguisher, although it's still quite high volume, but just one-shot only. Not sure but assume it's a powder, safe to use on all the usuals in a plane (fuel, electronics, etc) in terms of your personal safety. I sincerely hope never to find out how effective it is.

If you have a standing (puddle) fuel fire you want to use Aqueous Film Forming Foam (AFFF) and cover it to "smother" the fire and prevent the fuel/oxygen mixture required to sustain burning. Dry chem works too but won't prevent it from re-igniting.

If you have a flowing fuel fire (i.e. dripping from the wing, engine, etc.) you will want to use a Dry Chemical extinguisher on the dripping part and AFFF on the puddle on the ground.

For any fire contained in a confined space such as the engine cowling or cabin space Halon 1211 is a good option. It displaces the oxygen in the air to prevent combustion. It also displaces the oxygen in your lungs so use it sparingly and find clean air to breathe.

If you choose dry chem in the engine cowl instead of Halon you will likely still put the fire out but will also guarantee ruining your engine because the stuff gets everywhere and is corrosive! And in the cockpit, dry chem will obstruct your view and will also get into your lungs. Opening a window will only make it worse.

The Halon used today is reclaimed and therefore expensive. There's only a certain amount left in the states but I thought I heard once that Canada still manufactured it? Halotron is the replacement for Halon.

And my vote goes to inflight fires being way more common than fires on the ground (minus the mechanic shop).

CW

For a long time I was happy with the usual "size" of Halon that fits under the pilots seat. One day I tried to get at it while belted into the seat, nearly impossible and concluded it would be hard to keep control of the A/C while struggling with it. Also it was difficult to handle in the cockpit. SO- I got a couple of the small units and they fit in the pocket on the back of the right seat. They are easy to get to and you can direct them UNDER the instrument panel with one hand.

Having smelled burning wires a couple of times I have learned to turn of the MASTER switch first - pull all circuit breakers - (you have replaced fuses with circuit breakers? right?) If you do not disconnect the power source first the fire will just start over.

If the fire is fuel fed and coming through the firewall you could always suck down the Halon yourself - yuck

Chris C

clippwagon wrote:If you have a standing (puddle) fuel fire you want to use Aqueous Film Forming Foam (AFFF) and cover it to "smother" the fire and prevent the fuel/oxygen mixture required to sustain burning. Dry chem works too but won't prevent it from re-igniting.

If you have a flowing fuel fire (i.e. dripping from the wing, engine, etc.) you will want to use a Dry Chemical extinguisher on the dripping part and AFFF on the puddle on the ground.

For any fire contained in a confined space such as the engine cowling or cabin space Halon 1211 is a good option. It displaces the oxygen in the air to prevent combustion. It also displaces the oxygen in your lungs so use it sparingly and find clean air to breathe.

If you choose dry chem in the engine cowl instead of Halon you will likely still put the fire out but will also guarantee ruining your engine because the stuff gets everywhere and is corrosive! And in the cockpit, dry chem will obstruct your view and will also get into your lungs. Opening a window will only make it worse.

The Halon used today is reclaimed and therefore expensive. There's only a certain amount left in the states but I thought I heard once that Canada still manufactured it? Halotron is the replacement for Halon.

And my vote goes to inflight fires being way more common than fires on the ground (minus the mechanic shop).

CW

Stopped by Yukon Fire in Anchorage today and learned a few things from them. Halon is what they sell standard to all the air taxis in the area. Halotron works, but they say it takes twice as much to do the job. Halon is in liquid form, so you need to be able to hold the extinguisher more-or-less vertical to use all the contents. It's good down to -65 degrees F. It is considered safe to use in a non-pressurized cockpit with pilot and/or passengers present, but good idea to vent in some fresh air if you can. I picked up a 1.25 lb Halon for $162.50.

-DP

p.s. That's in addition to a 1.25 lb Halon in the C-170, and a 2.5 lb Halon in my fueling storage locker. I was sold on Halon previously. I started this thread to see if it was still the recommended agent, and at least according to Yukon Fire, and most folks here, it appears that it still is.

Not an expert or a chemist, but I've read that it takes around 7% halon by volume to quench a fire. If that's true, it's not too bad for a chemical that's toxic in higher percentages to humans.

Great information here. Getting a bunch of gear together for annual coming up at end of the month and safety equipment is something I am lacking on. Ordered the new 406/121.5 ELT, already had a spot and carry seasonal survival gear, however I feel stupid for not having a fire extinguisher. The thought of having a in-flight fire and hearing my dog (or passengers) squealing as he burns is a thought I can't handle. So…what particular fire extinguishers are you guys using. Sounds like Halon is the best for the cockpit application, which is what I am talking about.

The H3R extinguisher's seem like good ones and I am wondering about the same thing Blackrock mentioned in an earlier post. What is the realistic difference between the heavier and lightweight versions. Varying from about .9 lb. to 2.5 lb. agent weight they all say 10-12 seconds worth of action. Anyways, this is a good thread and thought there may be others with more experience on these to help me buy the best one.

Here's a link to Spruce's collection of extinguisher's:

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/search/s ... 580&y=-180

H3R RT A400. 7GCBC, mounted underneath the dash where I can reach it easily. Also did the CB mod to be able to better isolate the electrical, as someone has already mentioned. That's enough for me.

How far do you want to go? Wear a nomex flight suit, gloves, hood, helmet, halon extinguisher system in the engine compartment, 2 x 5 lb in the cabin (one for the back seat), BRS recovery chute in case the engine in your Super Cub quits.........Good fodder for all you worst-case scenario guys.

Halon works best. Size the extinguisher by your cockpit volume. Too small and it doesn't work. Too big and it can be toxic. It will put out a fire and still leave the atmosphere breathable if you don't use too much. And, it's expensive.

Someone mentioned CO2 - that should be a non-starter. It does some cooling, and can be directed, but if you use enough to put out a fire it can displace enough air to make it non-life sustaining.

Dry chemical is messy, corrosive, damages avionics, but it is reasonably non-toxic and cheap.

The FAA recommends Halon.

Given the very low odds that I would ever actually use one inside the cockpit along with the cost considerations, I carry dry chemical. Some consider that a mortal sin.