What to do with your 2nd airplane?

[aktahoe1]

So, I really need to sell my other aircraft. I have been trying to sell it (sort of) but not very hard thinking its nice to own two. I think ever person needs at least 2 planes but thats not really my point of this thread.

Given the market, and not wanting to give my 2nd plane away, I am curious if anyone has experience with a leasing or renting their aircraft? Honestly I am not really interested in letting students reap havoc on her but given its a 182 maybe the folks flying her would be a bit more proficient (yeah right, heavy nose, etc)

Anyone have any ideas? I am very aware of the abuse rentals get, so I know this is sort of a silly question but maybe someone has a good idea...

Bottom line, I dont want to give the plane away thats in mint condition for some knucklehead to screw it up in a rental program, but....maybe it can work out so that it is at least paying for the hanger space, etc. Just pondering...the plane is currently listed on Barnstormers.

http://www.backcountrypilot.org/gallery ... G_4633.JPG

AKT

[flightlogic]

Just one man's opinion. Nobody treats it like the owner does.
If you can wait until the market improves. Or just the right buyer, who appreciates the care that went into it... comes along.
Maybe take on a single partner, who then has a vested interest in how it is treated.
I got asked last week about leasing some time on my 182 to a flight instructor here in AZ. Turned it down. Just too many red flags flying... if you know what I mean.
Best of luck.

[EZFlap]

Find one or two qualified, caring, good-old-boy pilots that were forced to to sell their airplane and now have nothing to fly. Make up some sort of a private rental or lease agreement that makes everyone happy, and do an insurance thing that names them (not just any student). That should be a lot less than insuring it for a flight school.

If you have to do it on a non-commercial basis insurance-wise, then bring in those two pilots as 1/100 share owners in the airplane, or make up a private flying club (or call it a co-op or something) to keep the insurance down. The new pilots buy in at $15K each (on paper), and you then agree to finance their buy-in, which just happens to coincide with the hours they fly. Then when they are tired of flying or you want to throw them out of the co-op, the remaining portion of the buy-in is by definition "refunded"... but since you financed their buy-in it's a wash and everyone walks away with nothing owed.

There's some clever way to arrange it along these lines I'm sure.

[Zzz]

Dude... ideal outcome is that you sell. Nobody wants their second plane to be nearly an exactly copy of their primary plane, what fun is that? But, we all know the aircraft market is kicking owners in the nuts, so I dunno...

If we lived closer together I would rent from you. It would be ideal and solve my problem of needing a 4-place. But leaseback... hmm. It would likely be used by more experienced pilots, unlike a 172 that students use to learn how to land.

You might give Reno Flying Service a call. I think they have instrument students that could benefit from having access to a nicely equipped 182. At least you'd be getting some revenue from it, enough to cover the cost of just sitting there.

[Pundy]

Kevin, if you really want to sell it, then my advice is to sell it now. I just took a bit of a thrashing on my 182, and I've spoken on this subject a little in another thread, but after having gone through this process (having bought 2 planes and sold one) in the last 14 months, I can tell you that it's my feeling this market is not only going to get worse for sellers in the next couple years, but will stay soft for a long time, and may not recover for a decade or more. There are all sorts of factors that play into this assessment, but the biggest are too many pilots aging out, and too few young folks with the money to play the game. My advice is that if you really need to sell the plane, then now is the time. 12 months from now when the next good selling season is upon us, the market will be even softer. The upside is that if you are looking to buy a Cub or some such to have as your second plane, if you sell your plane now you'll be in a position to snatch up a good deal on the next plane.

Sorry to sound so negative, but if one is truly objective about this, I don't think there's any way you can argue that the market will get stronger. Just my opinion....

[low rider]

Lets start another drop zone. No insurance and 25$ loads to 6 grand.

[obxbushpilot]

I had two for a while and got tired of annualing and maintaining two when I dont fly one enough. Luckily, I had a good plane that has always been considered a cheap, entry level, but hearty aircraft (Pacer Pa22-20) and that's exactly what peolple are buying in this market. I felt like I had the best of both markets. I bought my C172 taildragger and got a great deal on her and sold the Pacer for $ 7k more than I paid for it 6years earlier with nothing more invested then some annuals and 50 amp alternator STC.

[Rob]

If you can honestly afford 2 light airplanes, but just don't need 2 so similar, or 2 in the same place, consider trading it out. Lots of folks looking for something else, but not so many ready to part with 100K.... Perhaps you could trade it out for something to leave in Cordova, could be to work or a fun buggy. Or perhaps something on floats, our locations make having only a float plane, hard to justify, but having a second plane on floats would be pretty groovy. Actually thinking about putting my cub on floats for good here as well...

If you are going to go the rental / training route, it is best to loose all sentimental value, and treat it like a tool... Have been down this road in a partnered 182 myself. I now hate flying airplanes someone unknown has been in...

Take care, Rob

[highroad]

Sent the Barnstormers link to my cousin who is shopping for a 182. Can you put a 600 or 700 series tire on the heavy duty nose fork if someone wanted to put wheel pants back on? Nice airplane.

[Cooperd0g]

At Northern Nevada Aviation there is a five hour minimum checkout process for the current 182 turbo in the fleet. It is a 2005 G1000 equipped plane. There is soon to be another 1980 182, non-turbo coming to leaseback. The plan is to have a 5 hour check out on that too. Right now the owners are hogging it themselves. I can say that they current one is very expensive to rent because it is pretty gucci so they have been looking for something a bit cheaper to rent out for the more experienced renters to do cross countries with and not tie up the 172s.

[low rider]

Call stancil back

[supercub185]

I have 2 and my own airstrip. A few years back we had 3. I am starting to realize I did a whole lot more flying and a lot less mowing before I owned more than one, and had my own hangar and strip. Hangar rent was 35 bucks a month and one old cub was cheap. More, faster , and convenience have equated to more expenses and less time. Ah what the he'll, keeps me out of trouble.

[Rhyppa]

I'm with Pundy. If you need to sell it just keep lowering the price till its gone. Horrible time to be selling a plane and I don't see it getting better for a long time either.

[gbflyer]

low rider is right. Stancil might be a good resource. There is some export business going on, and they are pretty good at it if the price is right.

gb

[Rhyppa]

Also, think about what it will cost you to sit on this plane for another year. Payments, insurance, another annual, hangar rent, advertising, heartburn, etc etc. You can chop the total of all that off the price right now and be at a break even point. The sad truth is that the most of the 182's moving are in the 30-$40 K range. Tons of them out there in the $60 and $70K range. And while your bird no doubt has lots of mods those don't, you're still competing with all of those and you're asking $20K more. As an example, two years ago I bought a '73 P model, mid time air frame, PPonk 520 motor with a 1000 hours left on it, 3 blade Mac, AP, fuel computer, engine analyzer, 406ELT and lots of other goodies for a tad over $50K. If I saw that same plane now I'd offer $40K. At the same time I took damn near a $20K kick in the pants on the Stinson I sold and that I had purchased 3 years prior. It hurt, but that's the reality of the market.

[aktahoe1]

Thanks for the posts...Maybe I need to move this thread to a new area and topic...182 for sale, price reduced.....
That would be the best case scenario for certain. Dont like the idea of renting or leasing it (this plane inparticular).
Lowrider-we already have too many planes to jump from...we need a cub

AKT

[Rob]

...we need a cub
AKT

Now you're talkin Good cub and a good 180... pretty tough combination to beat!

[Bravo Hotel]

I had the same situation about 5 years ago with a cherokee 180c. It had a newer 500 hour engine so I "cost shared" it out before I sold it. Ended up taking in a few thousand dollars from some buddies while not affecting my sale price. Thats what I would do if I were you. Make them pay for the extra insurance premium to add them, then dump it. Your first loss or offer is usually the best.

[joe14580]

I'm with Pundy. If you need to sell it just keep lowering the price till its gone. Horrible time to be selling a plane and I don't see it getting better for a long time either.

I'll take it further, it'll never get "better" than it is now. It'll go down from here and it'll ever reach the point it's at it, especially when you factor in inflation (yes, that'll be upon us soon). Sell it now, it may not feel like it, but you're at the "peak".

[low rider]

Fire and brimstone! The end is near! We have reached the peak,all downhill from here,!, everything will get worse!nothing to look forward to ahhhggggggggggg!!!!!!...just park it and give up!