175 TD vs 180 (on we go...)

[Hafast]

Pundy,

So, what's next: a Maule vs 180 thread?

That'll get em going....

MTV

Mike......I can't believe you said the M... word.

[mtv]

Hey, I've actually FLOWN the Mmmmmm......Georgia built airplanes....

And, actually, I think a Maule would be a better airplane for his purposes than a 180 hp 175, but maybe not as good as a 180.

Go figure, eh?

MTV

[Rob]

how much time have you got in an O=360 powered Cessna, and how much in an O-470 powered Cessna, and the 520?. Take away the nuances and all these birds you are talking about still have the same blasted Cessna wing.... Ever notice a guy like Gump or MTV can get in and out of any Cessna in the 1xx /2xx /3xx line up and make them all sing....

Unless I misunderstood you, you have about 100 hrs of flight time, just started flying a year ago, and the bulk of that time is in a Pponk powered C-182.

So knowing that, I would go fly the snot out of an O-360 C bird, and make sure you can live with the step down that you are about to experience. Hanging an O-360 on a 4place Cessna does not yield the same performance increase it does on a Supercub...

I will go out on a limb here, and say trade down, in both airframe and powerplant, and within a month you will be kicking yourself in the ass...and if you think you can't afford the sidestep into a c-180 now, just wait and see how much that move is going to cost you, when you figure out you screwed the pooch, sell the 170 / 175, and then have to pony up for a second time on an upside down bird...and then once you get into the airframe you really wanted all along, you are going to have to figure out how to pull off another O-520...Unless your engine is sick, you are going to want that beast back...

Airplane insurance is real simple... you are going to pay the same liability for the 175 TW as you are the 180 +/- a few bucks, the hull is going to be based on the value you place on the airplane. There are no free rides, if you think that just because the A/W cert / registration is for a nose dragger, and therefore you are in for cheaper insurance, you will have a rude awakening the first time you ding it and the insurance co. wants your logs...

It sounds like you have an awesome plane, It also sounds like you aren't at a point in life where downsizing is a priority... In your shoes I'd keep the Pponk'd 182 for as long as need be to be able to afford my dream plane. It's really easy to lose a bundle of cash in this game floundering around... Conversely, it's real easy to basicly fly for free buying the 'right' airplanes.

Take care, Rob

Oh and BTW, I have nothing against the 170 or 175s, just basing my observations on what you indicated you wanted in an airplane.

[Pundy]

Damn Rob, that's the kind of straight talk that I'm looking for, no sugar coating it there. My chief complaint at the moment is that I'm sitting on a bird that I love (other than the fact that I have to put a float kit into it, and that it's not a great plane to put on skis). But on all other facts you have the details correct. Since I am such a green pilot I am looking for feedback like this. I assumed that extra HP had the effect of making a "better" pilot out of me. Honesty is always the best policy and I appreciate your frank response. Anyone else wanna chime in?

[Jaerl]

Pundy, I'm not sure why you would pay extra for a 175 that has been converted to a tail dragger. If your going to put it on floats just buy a regular 175. My 1960 175 lists a floatplane kit as an option and 175/180's are CHEAP right now. I've seen a few in the high 20's since I listed mine.

[Pundy]

Jearl, I'm looking for a taildragger so that I can easily do ski ops as well as floats. If I just wanted floats I'd convert my current 182 with Pponk motor, it'd be a great float plane, but I'm too scared to think about the firewall issues were I to put it on skis.

As for the insurance issues guys. I'm a 100+ hour pilot with little TW experience, so bear that in mind when I tell you that the quote for the 180 is $3,500/year. The 175 quote is $2,500/year. I made sure to tell them that it was definitively a conventional gear plane, as I wanted to ensure I got an accurate quote. A 170 with an 0-360 is even cheaper. I'm not in a position (from an experience point of view) to be willing to self insure at this point (something about pilots who have ground looped, and those who will).

[Jaerl]

Make sense, whatever you decide it is a great time to be buying!

[lancef53]

Just as a reference point, when I started flying our 180, I had about 250 TT and 100 TW in a champ. Insurance was right at $2000 for 80k hull, so I dont think you will be at $3500 for long. Ask the insurer when the rates will decrease, because they will with time in type. The spread between the two will most likely narrow. My Dad and i have three TW planes that we insure (C-180, vans RV-8, and a champ) The insurance cost per dollar insured is very similar, with the champ being the most expensive ($950 for 30k) The RV8 and the 180 are within a hundred bucks of each other, valued at 80k.

I agree with the others, you will be unhappy going from a pponk 182 to a 180hp engine in basically the same airframe.

[Rob]

Pundy,, I am a little unfamiliar with the length of the various seasons there in ME. Perhaps if owning two airplanes is out of the question, you could partner up in a smaller ship (cub type, etc...) for the shorter of the two non wheeled seasons (Skiis or floats) and then keep the 182 for the other, as well as wheels...

For a moment, I had also thought that perhaps performance is in the eye of the beholder, and maybe you just wouldn't care if you stepped into a smaller engined airframe. But then it came out this way:

I agree with the others, you will be unhappy going from a pponk 182 to a 180hp engine in basically the same airframe.

To put it into perspective, it has been said that a 170 and early 180 are the same from the door post back (Close, but not quite) keeping that in mind you are looking at a net loss of over 100 hp!

and here there are threads about building great airplanes that only carry that hp for a total!

One more tid bit on the 182/180. Your C model is roomier than an early 180 or a 170, it is essentially the same airframe as the later 180s and 185 and is about 4" taller at the rear seat. Probably only significant if you are really using it as a 4 place.

[cstolaircraft]

get a helio courier H 250 or H391 B fly most places that a super cub will with a good pilot. and fly more than a c 180

Reuben

PS next tread helio vs cessna 180