Zane wrote: I do often wonder though how my Toyota engine has never once stuttered having run E10 for 85,000 miles.
fern_hopper wrote:Zane wrote: I do often wonder though how my Toyota engine has never once stuttered having run E10 for 85,000 miles.
Thats a good point. E10 seems to be more suitable for newer auto engines though. My 1996 Toyota T100 with 189k miles runs like a champ on clear gas, while it sputters and has a noticeable MPG drop with E10 unless I run E10 premium. On the other hand I used to have a 2004 Tacoma. Same engine, just different generation then the T100. That Tacoma could care less whether it burns E10 or clear gas.
Zane wrote:The guy who develops an aircraft fuel system that can safely handle E10 or E15 consistently and predictably, will do well.
Rotax may approve use of E10, but the variables of fuel systems and the fuel itself are too many accept that as okay. Even a Rotax 912 cannot run on water that has fallen out of suspension in an ethanol blended gasoline.
I don't think you'll be able to divorce this topic from the ethanol debate in general, it's just too closely related. I do often wonder though how my Toyota engine has never once stuttered having run E10 for 85,000 miles. Is it an advantage of fuel injection and real time combustion analysis (oxygen sensor?) It's easy to make a fuel system less prone to corrosion from water suspended or emulsified in ethanol, but how to make a fuel system that can handle water that is out of suspension? Centrifugal filter? Some sort of fancy gascolator?
Think about the reality of have one in every 10 gallons of your fuel being a straight gallon of pure alcohol. Now what are the chances that there exists an additive that can eliminate that alcohol, add back the octane that alcohol supplies, burn safetly in your engine without having its own problems, and come in a concentrate so strong that a small bottle will treat an entire gas tank? Not to even mention all the other claims like increased performance, economy, etc.
If this were the old west, this stuff would be called tonic and sold by men in covered wagons.
There are some benefits to using stabilizers for storage but the rest, IMO, is unsupported marketing BS.
The other side of the coin is, ethanol does have some advantages and that is why it is present in so many of these products. Ethanol is a great cleaner and carbon reducer. I regularly pull apart carbs and since the introduction of E10 those carbs are usually spotless. Carbon buildup on valves and in combustion chambers has been greatly reduced. Again, IMO, I really see no need to decarb since the introduction of E10.
Well, thats my take on the whole thing. I am not going to argue it, just keep doing things the way that has worked very well for me. Only add fuel to the tank when I am ready to burn it. No additives. My boat just sat for almost three months with no additives but less than 1/4 tank. I put 60 gallons in and ran the boat all day. Any water that had accumulated/separated was re-absorbed by the fresh fuel and safely passed through my engine.
Our best hope for a resolution to E10 is improved materials to handle the fuel without deteriorating. It probably wont be long until we see closed fuel tank ventilation systems like those we see in automobiles. We also may see smart fuel systems that will calibrate mixture according to the type of fuel being used.
TwinPOS wrote:Experimentals are different, I am not aware of an STC that allows ethanol. The big issue being certifying, a whole new fuel for a relatively small number of airframes. Remember that the airframe and engine in certified models must both pass the test for the FAA to grant an STC. I would be careful experimenting with blended fuels at altitude or in warmer temps after being left on the ramp in the sun. This is very close to the worst case scenario testing that the FAA submits planes to.
This being said, when STC'd, I love using Mogas, and wish you the very best of luck with your project.
PS try boat guys, and classic car guys and calling jobbers in the area to see if clean gas is being sold locally, you might have a good close by resource.
TwinPOS wrote:......Marathon Oil Company is marketing a 90 octane unleaded non-ethanol gasoline as a recreational fuel for boats. This fuel is perfectly suited for use with 87 octane auto fuel STC's. In some locations it is one octane point higher, 91 octane. 91 octane is suitable for use with all auto fuel STC's. "
We have conducted tests of the complete fuel system on all Pipistrel Aircraft (Sinus/Virus/Taurus/Apis-Bee/Trikes) and we have discovered no problems when usinfg E10 fuel, which has 10% Etahnol content.
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