Outdoor Fabric Planes

[PilotRPI]

Living in NJ, I will have to store a plane outside since the cost of a hanger is prohibitive. A couple of the planes I am considering (Citabria, Pacer) are fabric, and a C140 wouldn't be terrible as I could get custom covers for just the wings. I noticed that many of you keep your planes outside, and I was curious if there are any steps you take to do so (custom covers, treatments, etc). Most people around here that tell me I need a hangar for a fabric plane have never actually owned one. I would love to hear from those with real experience!

One person pointed out that the $300 plus I save on storing outside every month more than makes up for the more frequent recoverings needed.

Thanks!
Jesse

[SkyTruck]

One person pointed out that the $300 plus I save on storing outside every month more than makes up for the more frequent recoverings needed.
Thanks!
Jesse

Do you have the discipline to put $300 a month away for that time?
If you do, your one in a million!

Nothing beats a hangar for an airplane.... it should be considered in the cost of aircraft ownership.
Like insurance, registration fees, and the never ending TAXES!

[hotrod150]

There's more aspects to having a hangar besides storing an airplane. Gives you a place to keep all your airplane & flying stuff, a place out of the weather to work on it when need be, storage space for all the non-flying junk that ends up in a mini-storage somewhere, and (maybe above all else) a man cave to just spend quality time in. Well worth a couple hundred bcks extra IMHO.

[Nizina]

I noticed that many of you keep your planes outside, and I was curious if there are any steps you take to do so (custom covers, treatments, etc). Most people around here that tell me I need a hangar for a fabric plane have never actually owned one. I would love to hear from those with real experience!

One person pointed out that the $300 plus I save on storing outside every month more than makes up for the more frequent recoverings needed.

Thanks!
Jesse

While I recently built a hangar for my Husky, I have been parking my planes outside for the last several decades. There isn't an airplane in Alaska -- fabric or metal -- that hasn't spent thier time tied down outside in the snow, ice, rain, wind and intense sunshine.

Don't know what kind of wind conditions that you will be experiencing there in NJ, but up here in the banana belt part of Alaska, 80 kt winds area an annual occurrence so wind is an over-riding concern when tying down outside.

My recommendations are: use double rope tiedowns for both wings: one through the tiedown rings, and one around the struts wheres they attach to the wing. (Tiedown rings eventually break off over several seasons of wind and corrosion).

Regarding the wing covers, make sure they have spoilers, and get "all mesh" material. Many wing covers are mostly mesh, but have solid fabric along the trailing edge. These will balloon up in the wind and cause damage to your airplane. I have tried all variations of covers over the years and find the all mesh to be the best for high wind regions. (besides, I kind of get turned on when putting black mesh on my baby.)

And don't be surprised on those really windy nights that you are out at the airport parked in front of your airplane for hours at a time while watching all of the other airplanes dance around on their tethers.

Nizina

[PilotRPI]

I already plan on creating an account for engine overhaul/maintenance that I would contribute to every month, and I plan on doing something similar for the cost of recovering if I get a fabric plane. I'm tired of flying rental planes on their schedule, and can afford my own if I go for something reasonable, but monthly hangar dues would probably put it out of reach.

If fabric would last 15 years outside (from what I hear maybe 20 if I'm careful), I would save $300*12*15 = $54,000 avoiding a hangar, much more than the cost of a recover!

That brings up another issue, what is the cost of a recover of something like a pacer or citabria and simpler paint? Anyone done that recently? I've heard anywhere from $7k to $15k

[PilotRPI]

Wind in the NE isn't too horrible. We get some off days with 40-60mph if a big storm rolls through. I hear NH can have some serious winds.

[akavidflyer]

The local airports and airstrips have planes that have been out in the weather for 20+ yrs that I can remember. Some of the planes out there I have been driving by almost everyday for the last 30 yrs. Some need new fabric, but the vast majority dont. The modern fabrics and coatings, if applied right, will give you an easy 20 yrs outside.

*disclaimer* Here is Alaska we are not subjecting the planes to the high temps found in the desert states, I can't comment on those situations, but in climates that are comparable to ours, the only major concern with having the plane outside is the wind, and the snow load. It is a pain in the ass if you get a wet snow, then it freezes and you end up with a nice ice ball. I can toss mine in the hangar about 100' away from my tie down for 40 bucks to thaw it out during the day, or 50 bucks for an overnight thaw. Sure beats 500 a month for a hangar at my airport (not to mention that there are none available).

[porterjet]

oops.

[porterjet]

I would save $300*12*15 = $54,000 avoiding a hangar, much more than the cost of a recover!

minus monthly tiedown fees. Your insurance company might have a bit of a discount for a hangar as well.

[mtv]

Sunlight is the biggest enemy of fabric covered airplanes, NOT BAD weather. The UV deteriorates fabric and coatings faster than anything. Hence, if you're going to park outside, Alaska isn't as bad as it may sound.

Nizina gives good advice on winds as well, though.

Fabric coverings can last a long time outdoors, if they're cared for properly.

How much are you paying for a tiedown space, by the way? If that's $50 a month, or more, then a hangar doesn't cost $300 more. Nevertheless, hangars are nice, but I couldn't afford a $300 a month hangar bill either. I've kept airplanes outdoors for many years (in Alaska). I would always have preferred a hangar, but.....

Also, consider looking around at different airports. You MAY be able to find a more affordable hangar rental at a different airport, and perhaps a 20 mile drive instead of a five mile drive could allow you to get into a hangar. Just a thought. Shop around some, and contact all the airports in reasonable striking distance.

But, find out what tiedown fees go for as well.

MTV

[nealkas]

Also, consider looking around at different airports. You MAY be able to find a more affordable hangar rental at a different airport, and perhaps a 20 mile drive instead of a five mile drive could allow you to get into a hangar. Just a thought. Shop around some, and contact all the airports in reasonable striking distance. MTV

excellent!

[Glidergeek]

"a man cave to just spend quality time in. Well worth a couple hundred bcks extra IMHO".
You will save on insurance (ask them), you will have a place to keep and store your junk (if you don't have junk you're not a real man ) work on the plane, ect. It will protect your investment, you wont have to wonder if somebody's stealing your gas, radios or just screwin with your plane. And last but not least when you get AIDS (cause you're spendin too much time and money on it instead of her ) you will have a place to go and live.

[PilotRPI]

Oh the joys of New Jersey. I'm looking at airports 50 miles from my house. $79 a month for a grass tiedown. $400 a month AT LEAST with about a 5 year waiting list for a hangar. So $300 a month is the difference, not the total for the hangar. Airports close to my house are closer to $1000 a month for a hangar (Teterboro, Morristown, Caldwell, Lincoln Park). Most airports around even have a waiting list for a pavement parking spot.

^ Why I'm so concerned about a good method for outdoor tiedown. I hear that UV radiation is the largest factor for fabric, so I would definitely get covers of some sort.

[steve]

Almost all of the planes in my part of the world, spend the entire time outside, as most of them are on floats. Not what I do with mine, but as was said, other than dealing with the winds and in our case snow loads, it is done. Most fabric planes seem to go countless years without recovering. Streve

[kevbert]

My 172 took a beating in the years it was tied down out in the wind. The control lock pin in the yoke has enlarged its hole to almost double size from the pounding on the controls by the wind. Most of that happened before I got it, but if I was to do it over again, I'd use some external locks on the control surfaces for windy areas.

I used to go through nose strut seals every year or two. During extreme cold in the winter, the seal would get hard or possibly some moisture made it freeze to the piston, then the wind would bounce the plane up and down, tearing the seal.

Consider finding some rural place that has economic troubles. I finally did the math, and I realized it was asinine to continue living in the rat race, and so I bought a crappy shack in Council, ID. I bought a 30x40 crappy hangar, too. The hangar was a whopping $6500, and I have to lease the ground it sits on from the city for $12 a month. All in all, it was a great move, I'm quite happy here.

[DavidB.]

Couldn't agree with Kevbert more. I moved from a rural wanabe city resort town (Bend Oregon) where there are no hangars, and when there is, they rent for $1200 a month, to Chelan Wa, where there is no fence around the airport, my dog walks around on the grass with no leash, I can keep and work on the Champ and all 11 of my bikes, and the Columbia River and Lake Chelan is always in view.
I pay $200 bucks a month for my Hangar, and $50 bucks to keep it at 65 degrees all winter long (50 if it is below 0) due to having the cheapest electric power in the world in our county.

I don't care if the fabric on the Champ would be ok outside or not, for me, working on the plane is 50% of the joy of owning it. When The Champ is done in March, I will add another project to work on while I fly it.

D.

[hotrod150]

...I realized it was asinine to continue living in the rat race, and so I bought a crappy shack in Council, ID. .... All in all, it was a great move, I'm quite happy here.

Where did you move from, Kevbert? I made a move mysef about 18 years ago, from the Los Angeles area (Torrance) to rural western washington, and it was one of the best decisions I ever made. I live in a small chickenshit house out in the woods, but it's paid for, and there's no gangs or other urban bullshit going on. I love it.

[Zzz]

Nothing beats having a hangar when the skys open up during a massive TS and huge hail starts pouring out. I've heard stories of crows and ravens pecking holes in fabric to eat your smashed bug tapanade off your wings.

Plus it's fun to hang out at the hangar with your propane heater running and polish and dote on your bird. Part of my airplane budget from here on out includes the hangar rent or payment. I was lucky with my last plane that my dad let me keep it in his hangar for free, but he lives 4 hrs away.

Whether you have a fabric or aluminum plane, if you store it outside, make sure you've got some corrosion protection, because in cool temps, water can condense and sit until you've got rust or aluminum oxide forming. Not the end of the world, but nice if you can prevent it.

[courierguy]

...I realized it was asinine to continue living in the rat race, and so I bought a crappy shack in Council, ID. .... All in all, it was a great move, I'm quite happy here.

Where did you move from, Kevbert? I made a move mysef about 18 years ago, from the Los Angeles area (Torrance) to rural western washington, and it was one of the best decisions I ever made. I live in a small chickenshit house out in the woods, but it's paid for, and there's no gangs or other urban bullshit going on. I love it.

[kevbert]

...I realized it was asinine to continue living in the rat race, and so I bought a crappy shack in Council, ID. .... All in all, it was a great move, I'm quite happy here.

Where did you move from, Kevbert? I made a move mysef about 18 years ago, from the Los Angeles area (Torrance) to rural western washington, and it was one of the best decisions I ever made. I live in a small chickenshit house out in the woods, but it's paid for, and there's no gangs or other urban bullshit going on. I love it.

I grew up in a tiny town in eastern Wa, but I've lived most of my adult life in various cities, most recently Seattle. My Dad grew up in central Idaho and always drug us kids out here in the summers. I've been to Port Townsend, it seems pretty nice, out of the way of most of the traffic, and not quite as much rain as some other areas around Puget Sound.

Tiedowns in Seattle were around $100/month at Boeing, and $120 a month in Renton, and hangars were unobtainable. I leased a year-round tie down at Lewiston, ID, for $20 a month, and only brought the plane over to Seattle in the summer when there was lots of good flying weather. I would drive over to see my parents in the winter, and it would often be good flying weather in Lewiston when it was IFR around Seattle. I guess the moral of that story is there's no point in paying premium dollars for tie-downs or hangars during seasons that are not conducive to flying, you may as well park it somewhere cheap.