safety pilot requirments

[qmdv]

When trying to keep IFR current, can I use a safety pilot that does not have a current medical (high blood preasure) but is checked out in my type plane? His vision and hearing are just fine.

Tim

[aktahoe1]

Nope! Unfortunately they need to be a certified pilot in type I believe.

[GumpAir]

Why can't your dog do it? She's not blind is she?

Gump

[qmdv]

Why can't your dog do it? She's not blind is she?

Gump

Thought of that but she always falls asleep in the plane. Maybe she just closes her eyes in fear.

tim

[GumpAir]

Probably have the same issue with a safety pilot...

[Matt 7GCBC]

Per the below I don't see where the safety pilot must be "fully capable of acting as pilot in command" except in the case of a check ride? Is there another reg that covers this?

§ 91.109 Flight instruction; Simulated instrument flight and certain flight tests.

(a) No person may operate a civil aircraft (except a manned free balloon) that is being used for flight instruction unless that aircraft has fully functioning dual controls. However, instrument flight instruction may be given in a single-engine airplane equipped with a single, functioning throwover control wheel in place of fixed, dual controls of the elevator and ailerons when—

(1) The instructor has determined that the flight can be conducted safely; and

(2) The person manipulating the controls has at least a private pilot certificate with appropriate category and class ratings.

(b) No person may operate a civil aircraft in simulated instrument flight unless—

(1) The other control seat is occupied by a safety pilot who possesses at least a private pilot certificate with category and class ratings appropriate to the aircraft being flown.

(2) The safety pilot has adequate vision forward and to each side of the aircraft, or a competent observer in the aircraft adequately supplements the vision of the safety pilot; and

(3) Except in the case of lighter-than-air aircraft, that aircraft is equipped with fully functioning dual controls. However, simulated instrument flight may be conducted in a single-engine airplane, equipped with a single, functioning, throwover control wheel, in place of fixed, dual controls of the elevator and ailerons, when—

(i) The safety pilot has determined that the flight can be conducted safely; and

(ii) The person manipulating the controls has at least a private pilot certificate with appropriate category and class ratings.

(c) No person may operate a civil aircraft that is being used for a flight test for an airline transport pilot certificate or a class or type rating on that certificate, or for a part 121 proficiency flight test, unless the pilot seated at the controls, other than the pilot being checked, is fully qualified to act as pilot in command of the aircraft.

[hotrod150]

......
(b) No person may operate a civil aircraft in simulated instrument flight unless—
(1) The other control seat is occupied by a safety pilot who possesses at least a private pilot certificate with category and class ratings appropriate to the aircraft being flown. ........

Kinda depends on whether "possesses at least a private plot certificate" is assumed to include a current medical. My take on it is that a medical is not required for the safety pilot. But that safety pilot would be required to have appropriate endorsements- for example, he'd need a high-performance signoff for a C182 , or a complex endorsement for a Bonanza.

[mtv]

The safety pilot MUST have a current medical and be rated for the airplane. The final word is based on a FAA Chief Counsel's opinion on the subject.

MTV

[Rob]

Mike,you have let me down I knew you would jump in on this deal and set it straight, but I didn't expectthe answer to be in the form of a 'he said she said....' I hate those deals....

here's the deal:


This is one of those deals that sucks (and I personally choose the common sense approach, and use who ever is handy) but... it is what it is...

Here is why a saftey pilot must have a medical, coincidentally, it is also why I have flown ag aircraft, banner tows, and glider tugs that were two holers, but never had a back seater:

Per 91.109 a safety pilot is a required crew member, in my examples above a back seater would not have been a required crew member, and thus not legal in those restricted cat. a/c. It is also the reasoning behind all the 'time building' schools that load two kids in a Seminole and then send them off around the country filing IFR.... two for the price of one. Unfortunately for those kids the airlines are hip to that deal and don't put a lot of weight in that type of multi or ifr time...

Per the below I don't see where the safety pilot must be "fully capable of acting as pilot in command" except in the case of a check ride? Is there another reg that covers this?

§ 91.109 Flight instruction; Simulated instrument flight and certain flight tests.

...civil aircraft in simulated instrument flight unless—

(1) The other control seat is occupied by a safety pilot who possesses at least a private pilot certificate with category and class ratings appropriate to the aircraft being flown.

This sentence makes the safety pilot a required crew member

As with pretty much everythig else we tend to do, nothing bad will come of any of this, unless something else bad happens first....

Take care, Rob

[mtv]

Rob,

My response isn't a "he said/she said" at all. It's from a book called "The FARs Explained" distributed by Jeppesen. That book is a great reference, for it contains not only the regulations, but specific case law and enforcement history if there is any on a particular regulation, it also gives NTSB findings if a case was elevated to the Board, AND, it gives FAA Chief Counsel opinions, which are essentially the final word in enforcement. If the FAA Chief Counsel says ya gotta have a medical, you have to have a medical.

Your reasoning is correct, and that's pretty much the argument that the Chief Counsel gave.

That book is a great resource, by the way.

MTV

[nmflyguy]

I'm no aviation lawyer, but from a common-sense perspective, to call someone a "safety pilot" certainly implies that that pilot is qualified to act as PIC in the aircraft being flown .. that includes pilot certificate, type and instrument ratings, required recent flight experience, and medical certificate and qualifications, the whole nine yards. If you're going to rely on any ambiguity in the flight rules to avoid a citation or voiding of your insurance in the event of an accident, that seems pretty thin protection and not likely to hold up.

[aktahoe1]

If I remember correctly, this question is on the private pilot knowledge test. You need a current medical to have a valid pilot certificate.

[once&futr_alaskaflyer]

If I remember correctly, this question is on the private pilot knowledge test. You need a current medical to have a valid pilot certificate.

I would word it differently: you need a current medical to properly exercise the privileges of your certificate as PIC or other req'd crewmember. Until the Department of Homeland Insecurity forces a change your pilot certificate remains valid until your death unless revoked or surrendered, medical or currency requirement notwithstanding.

(Of course if you fail to timely notify of an address change you are in violation and you might be revoked though I doubt it )

There are pilot operations that do not require a medical and no I'm not talking about light sport I have a friend who flies his 182 every weekend with no medical. Legally, too

[qmdv]

Stupid rules. A CFII with 15 K hrs that lost his medical is I am sure a whole lot better tha these kids with 80 hrs that do not have high blood preasure yet. The worst that would happen is the safety dies and then you just take off the hood.

If this is so important then can the safety pilot log the hours.

Tim

[flynengr]

Tim:

Yep. As long as the safety pilot is designated PIC before the flight, both pilots can log time.

Your frustration reminds me of another circumstance, where a buddy of mine is a private pilot, sitting right seat and logging PIC time, whilst an instructor in the back is providing dual to a student in the left seat. Seems the instructor can't get a medical, but the student really wants to work with this guy. Works out for my buddy, he flys for free and logging time, plus he gets to make some interesting taildragger saves down low when the student gets things out of sorts. All in a day's work, I guess.

Too bad you aren't a little closer, I'd ride safety pilot for ya. I know I have to beat the bushes sometimes to get a victim, I mean volunteer.

Flynengr

[mtv]

And, sometimes the rules work the OTHER way: Consider a situation where I am an instructor and I have a student who is not night current. Neither am I, as a matter of fact. So, we both jump in the aircraft, precisely one hour after sunset, and go fly. I conduct three takeoffs and landings to a full stop as the sole manipulator of the controls, my student then does three landings and takeoffs as sole manipulator of the controls, and voila...we are BOTH now night current.

Reference the reg which says you can't carry passengers at night unless you are night current. Doesn't apply here for the same reason: No passengers on this airplane. Both instructor and student are, by definition, "Required flight crewmembers". Perfectly legal.

And, there are others. You decide to get a tailwheel endorsement. You fly with an instructor. You are the sole manipulator of the controls during the flight (not very likely on the first flight....but) You can log that flight time as PIC, even though you are NOT qualified to serve as PIC in that airplane.

But, you are rated for flight in that airplane. See FAR 1 definitions. An airplane for which you are rated, as in category and class.

MTV

[GlassPilot]

Nothing wrong with that...

Just last month my CP and I climbed into a plane and did six circuits, three for me and three form him to get night current. My plane is certified for one pilot too. OpSpecs require two though...



Added:

Well now that I think about it my story doesn't really apply. We were both still current (just) so it doesn't really relate. My bad...


...I hate that when that happens.