coming soon: death route airstrip

[low rider]

Been looking @ a few different parcels out that way to put a strip on as well.You buy the beer, Ill bring a shovel and a pick, and could muster up a few more planes with a couple folks also,Great excuse to fly in some real nice country! It would be cool to put alot of dirt strips in out that way.There are tons of places to land already but it would be nice to take alot of the guesswork out of the last 10 minutes of your flights knowing it was an "actual" strip you were headed to.Anywhere to land near it as of now?

[jmorgan]

Sagebrush is a arid environment plant. We cleared a few acres simply by running sprinklers on it nonstop for a Summer....next Summer it was all dead and we used a tractor to clear all of the "stumps" out. Our sagebrush is 3-4' high.
Jim

[Terry]

I haven't grubbed a sage bush in my life, but my guess would be a day with a 20,000lb dozer.
Seems like that would get the sage brush into several piles along side the strip and a few passes to fill in the holes made in the clearing process. $1200.00

[dirtstrip]

Ok, so this information I am giving you is 35 yrs old. How much you can use I don't know but it is cheaper than just clearing with a dozer. In the summer of '73 I was in pursuit of an Animal Science/Range Management degree out of SDSU, and back then we were required to do a summer class on wheels tour of western South Dakota, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho and Utah through Forest Service, National Park and BLM lands and across reclamation sites left from open pit coal mining. Other than spraying 2-4,5 T there were two other methods of sagebrush control. One was prescribed burning. This requires firebreak preparation and sagebrush thick enough to carry the fire. The second method was chaining. If the brush is big enough, you string a large steel chain (I mean this was shipyard size anchor chain) between the drawbars of two Cat dozers. The Cats drive along side by side as wide an area as they can pull with the chain. The sagebrush will catch on the chain and it will roll most of it out of the ground. Then they turn around and pull the chain back in the other direction. Then if you have enough money just have them push it in piles and you can burn it. It will go fairly quick like this, or if after the second pass with the chain you have more time left than money, you and your Ford N might do the pulling of the rooted brush into piles or rows to the center of the strip for the burn. The cleared area on both sides of the rowed brush becomes the fire break. Before you do anything get out a transit and shoot the site and see if you have any natural drainage and use it to your advantage when laying out the strip. Good Luck and post some pictures.

[Jaerl]

I thought I was the only one crazy enought to want to live out there. If It were me I would buy an old Bobcat with a toothed bucket or a set of forks. Both would be best. Just pop them out and clear them off. A couple weekends an you should have it. Equipment is cheaper now than it's ever been. Then sell the bobcat and build a drag to pull behind a truck once you got it finished. I just saw a Off Brand gas "bobcat" for $2500.

For layout you might want to check Lucin and the Valleys West. There are a lot of old strips out there and they all seem to be situated the same. Use Google Earth and you can find them. Wind can get 60 mph plus out there so I wouldn't start digging till you know for sure how you want it. Lots of cool place out there if you look.

[mepps1]

Total cost was 5000.00 or so.

Holy crap!

I was thinking I would be willing to pay several hundred, but definitely not several thousand! It sounds like you've got a fantastic airport. Of course, I don't need it that perfect.

Hey Porterjet, if I buy a couple of picks and shovels, did you want to come out for a "vacation"?

5k Doesn't buy much diesel fuel. It buys even less iron. I'm thinking you'll be going the quick and dirty route.

Depending on mobilization costs, quick and dirty would probably run 1.5-2k. That's just a really rough guess.
Mob.....................$350
Dozer- 6hrs@$95........570
Blade- 10hrs@$115....1150

A thousand or two will burn up pretty fast.

[highlanderninerKC]

Don't want to just be a lurker so I'll chime in fwiw.

When we clear sagebrush for new vineyard ground we first run over it with a flail chopper (the kind used for orchards) and then with a box scraper to even out the hummocks. It works well.

We have also used to use a chain as previously described - a couple of large tractors worked just fine, and I'd think that would work pretty well for a runway clearing.

One comment on planting dryland grass: sheep fescue and many of the other dryland grasses tend to be very clumpy without a little irrigation. It could make for a really rough surface. just m2c

k

[porterjet]

Looks like a couple of you hit on the idea I thought of at 2AM, couldn't sleep....
Have a Tom Sawyer Day!
Tell everybody here what a great and important day it's going to be building "sagebrush international airport", invite a local Becky Thatcher to feed and water the group and we'd be done by 4. If you word it just right I bet everybody would bring their own heavy equipment too, for free!

[y4]

I think I can help, phone me in the evening at 775-625-3387. I live close, have been in central Nevada for fifty years, and have worked for both NDOT and Lander county Road DEPT. as an equipment operator.

[kevbert]

Thanks for all of the offers of help, regardless of whether it's for a few bucks, a few beers, or just the chance to watch it all unfold like a Shakespearean tragedy!

I think my best bet is to get a bulldozer to spend the better part of a day roughing it in, then do the finish work myself (or with the help of a few beer-swilling dregs of society). Because I don't live very close to the place, it's not practical for me to whittle away at it over time with small equipment.

I didn't mention it before, but there's a narrow dirt road running through the place. It could potentially be widened quite a bit, straightened a tiny bit, and the high points knocked down and it would make a fine runway. However, once in a blue moon someone drives through, and when it's muddy in the early spring, someone with more horsepower than brains could make a real mess of things. So, I think I would prefer the runway to be adjacent to the road rather than coinciding with it.

There are numerous small channels (the biggest are a couple of feet deep) going through the place. They don't show up well when you're standing on the ground because the sagebrush hides them, but they show up nicely on google earth. I think the trick is to align a runway between some channels, then it automatically is well drained and protected from runoff and the ditches have naturally proven the test of time. Here's a shot from google earth that shows what I think are the best two sites for a 3000x50 runway.



"Sagebrush International Airport" certainly has a nice ring to it, but at the moment I'm leaning more towards "Sagebrush Intergalactic Spaceport, Gunnery Range, and Beer Garden"!

[Stol]

Kevbert.. Your google earth pic tells a great story...

I will add a few thoughts.

The site next to road makes more sense from the access point of view. If you are going to have a dozer delivered that looks like a good staging area. Also that config is pointed SW / NE. 99% of the runways I have landed on out here in the west usually have the winds favoring that direction... Your site could different though...

That site allows for access in case you ever want to have building supplies delivered to build a hangar, home or whatever..

The drawback is if people sometimes drive that dirt road then your privacy is compromised.. That other site makes for a better place for privacy and security.... When this country craters, and that is when,,, not if being out in the middle of nowhere will be key to living a long life with little BS to deal with.... Just my .02 cents worth.

Ben.

[EZFlap]

Absolutely no offense or disrespect meant to Ben Haas, the undisputed V8 STOL CH-801 king of horsepower... but -

The country didn't 'crater' when we were all taught to hide under our desks in school to prepare for a Cold War nuke attack, or when we thought the computers would all go nuts on Y2K, or when everyone thought AIDS would spread out and kill 90% of everybody, or the killer bees would sting us to death, or the Euro dollar crashing the world economy, or the Arabs kicking up oil to $100 a barrel, wild Tsunamis, California earthquakes, an instant Ice Age, the oceans overflowing, or any one of a hundred other panic-mongering concerns.

We have plenty of real problems that I won't minimize.

As for the end of the world scenario, however... truth be known, if the country really craters and we all have to learn Chinese to beg for a bowl of rice, the Chinese-Saudi-Hispanic-Pelosi-Obama-Communist-Marxist-Nazi-Mafia-Illegal Immigrant-NWO-Area 51 Alien government will come in and take your airstrip whether it is in Lovelock, Black Rock, Little Rock or Little Big Horn.

So if someone is truly concerned about that scenario, make a section of the road 2 or three times wider, with wavy edges and irregular shape as seen from above, and put some big rocks between the "regular" part of the road that people drive on and the widened section you can land on with your survival rations. Better bury the hangar-home-bunker underground while you're at it

[Zona]

You forgot to mention the mind reading and control lasers from space. China does not have a chance, forget about them, we have all their secrets already.
Might cause a general panic when people figure out that it's real though. See, you don't believe it too.

Link:
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2008/11/presidents-secr/

I guess we better move this to a different thread though, because I like this one about the runway, and don't want to ruin it.

[Zona]

Check out this runway liquid. Sounds like a cheap way to keep the dust down on at least part of it.

http://www.conaidasia.com/documents/Stabilization%20of%20Military%20Airstrip%20in%20Afghanistan.pdf

[Stol]

Absolutely no offense or disrespect meant to Ben Haas, the undisputed V8 STOL CH-801 king of horsepower... but -

The country didn't 'crater' when we were all taught to hide under our desks in school to prepare for a Cold War nuke attack, or when we thought the computers would all go nuts on Y2K, or when everyone thought AIDS would spread out and kill 90% of everybody, or the killer bees would sting us to death, or the Euro dollar crashing the world economy, or the Arabs kicking up oil to $100 a barrel, wild Tsunamis, California earthquakes, an instant Ice Age, the oceans overflowing, or any one of a hundred other panic-mongering concerns.

We have plenty of real problems that I won't minimize.

As for the end of the world scenario, however... truth be known, if the country really craters and we all have to learn Chinese to beg for a bowl of rice, the Chinese-Saudi-Hispanic-Pelosi-Obama-Communist-Marxist-Nazi-Mafia-Illegal Immigrant-NWO-Area 51 Alien government will come in and take your airstrip whether it is in Lovelock, Black Rock, Little Rock or Little Big Horn.

So if someone is truly concerned about that scenario, make a section of the road 2 or three times wider, with wavy edges and irregular shape as seen from above, and put some big rocks between the "regular" part of the road that people drive on and the widened section you can land on with your survival rations. Better bury the hangar-home-bunker underground while you're at it

No offence taken sir.. I respect you for your views and all are valid. As for China, thats the least of our problems. We will treat them like any dead beat treats their creditors.. We just file bankruptsy.. they don't get shit... Our downfall will be the haves and the have nots and that sir will be an internal situation. Jus my humble opinion.......................

[eureka]

As a side note among all these offers of assistance - especially from Y4 - have you actually located those section and quarter corners? If not make sure before you rip & tear. I am ignorant of diesel power, herbicides or erosion control, but as a Land Surveyor I do hear a lot of inventive ideas about how prior property owners or real estate agents determine boundaries. As the second Intergalatic Spaceport in the area (see NV88) this will be a pretty serious undertaking and monument to future foolishness. So, if you need some quick boundary location, and a runway layout - complete with cuts & fills for those diesel powered volunteers - send me a PM - will work for beer!

[kevbert]

Eureka, you make a great point. I have located the approximate positions of the section corners, but the property has not been surveyed, and my determination of the corners has no legal basis.

The legal description of the property is Nevada, Mt. Diablo Meridian, Township 33N, Range 31E, section 21.

I used a number of internet sites to convert the range/township/section to latitude and longitude. Naturally, they all gave me different answers, however, they were in agreement until the third place past the decimal point. I finally decided to use http://www.earthpoint.us/townships.aspx since they claimed to use BLM data for their calculations, and there is a BLM section on all four sides of mine.

I entered the converted coordinates into my gps, and used that to find the spot on the ground. I have observed that when the gps is stationary for a long period of time, the readings will vary somewhere in a circle with about a 25 foot radius when WAAS is not on. When WAAS is working, the readings for a point on the ground will vary over a long period of time with about a 3 foot radius.

So, using the GPS should introduce an error of less than 25 feet, and I have no clue how much error was introduced by the earthpoint.us data conversion, but I'm assuming that it is on a similar order of magnitude or smaller.

If this was a tiny 40' x 80' lot in a city, the error would obviously be so large that my approach would be useless. However, since the property is 1 mile x 1 mile, I don't really care if I'm off 25 feet, 50 feet, or 100 feet. I have a safety margin, as I don't plan on installing any personal property within 100 ft of the boundary anyway. So, while I can't provide the certainty of a surveyed point, I think I can determine it accurately enough that because of my small safety margin, I won't be crossing the boundary.

If I've overlooked something, I'd definitely want to know. Thanks!

[Jaerl]

Kevbert, I don't know if you have already bought the land but if you haven't you might want to check the counties websites in Nevada. The people selling these lots on ebay and other places get them from County Tax Lien sales. I have seen 160 acres go for under $500 in Nevada and Western Utah. The reason they sell for that is because that is what it's really worth. You also want to check and see if their is water and building permits available. Plus a lot of the area is in Restricted or prohibited Airspace. Make sure you check the sectionals before you buy it for an airport.

Remember, Free Manure is only worth having if you need it.

[kevbert]

That's good advice about ebay. However, this section is bought, paid for, and the property tax continues to accrue as I type! I think I got a fair price on the piece. I consider it to be much higher quality than many of the other ones that I've looked at.

The previous owner was buying up sections and chopping them up into 40 acre parcels and then selling a "piece of the American dream" to poor bastards in cities that would probably never even get around to going and looking at it. Pershing County passed an ordinance a few years ago that prohibited breaking up certain areas into parcels smaller than 160 acres. When the previous owner discovered that he couldn't subdivide this piece into 40 acre parcels, he sat on it until he got into financial trouble when the economy started down. When I happened along with some cash, he sold it to me for about 20% less than what he paid for it. However, it was still a whole lot more than some of the salt flats that go for cheap in the tax lien sales.

I've looked at dozens of parcels over the years, and researched this one to death before I bought it. The most helpful tool in recent years has been Google Earth. I was astounded at how many ebay sellers show scenic pictures of mountains and then Google Earth shows you that it's in the middle of a salt flat 25 miles from the nearest mountain.

The only concern I have about this property is whether or not I will hit water if I have a well drilled. The odds are probably in my favor, but there are no guarantees. Most of Nevada has plenty of ground water (makes sense, because the Great Basin doesn't drain to an ocean). However, I've heard of several people who got salt water or very highly mineralized water when they drilled down to the water table.

My place is up in a valley in some low mountains, and so I'm a thousand feet above the surrounding desert floor. Ergo, it's too far to drill down to the base water table. However, there are three named springs about a mile above me on the hill, and the water from those springs has to drain through the ground, down the valley, and has to go under my place. There's another spring a mile below my place that has to be the same water. If I can hit that water, it should be good clean water that gets replenished from snow melt each spring.

Nevada allows a residential well for each parcel of land, no permits required. Pershing county requires building permits subject to the usual onerous restrictions. In the area where my parcel is located, most commercial operations would require a special waiver, but residential buildings are permitted if the lot size is at least 160 acres.

There are no airspace restrictions. In fact, it's class G. That's one of the first things I checked!

[Stol]

Kevbert.. Your 40.711099 -118.495090 location is about your best bet for hitting water... Judging from Google earth that spot is between Willow and Antelope springs and that drainage looks like the sweet spot for sinking a well and having a good outcome. I would make a phone call or two to some excavators in Winnemuka to see what the going price is for a dozer and grader. I don't know what the well drilling guys get but around here I usually figure 50 bucks a foot. Keep us informed on how this thing plays out.

Ben.