ELT's

[hotrod150]

I just bought a set of replacement d-cell batteries for my AmeriKing AK-450 ELT. Had to be Duracell MNI300's but still only cost me about $10 for the six of them, plus they're good until 2018. Considering that an ELT-specific battery pack is usually $30 and up and is only good for about 2 years, I figure that's about a 800% savings, plus I can use the old batteries in a flashlight or something to boot. I realize that I'm only saving about eighty bucks over 6 years, but saying 800% makes me feel more warm & fuzzy.
These ELT's (& the equivalent ACK) are only about $150 new, so if you have an old style ELT that's not working right it's probably way more cost effective to just replace it with one of these instead of screwing around trying to fix it.

[GumpAir]

With the old 121.5 ELT's in some of our airplanes does anyone official even care if they work anymore?

On paper I know they're required for most flights, but in reality? I have a battery coming due in May, and I'll replace it, but I'll be scratching my head as I do, asking, "Why?"

Gump

[whee]

Only person I know that cares is my IA.

I've got the same AK-450 ELT. Sure is nice to not have buy a special battery.

[flightlogic]

I noticed on my last few flights in the southwest.... that center will call airliners on 121.5 when they can't find them on the assigned freq.
The airliner usually does not answer... (embarrassed I suppose) but it seems to get them back to where they should be.
So....... if your ELT pops up and is driving them crazy way up there, do you suppose they tell center what they heard? Civil Air patrol had direction finders for that freq. in their planes... if you want doddering old men looking for you.... (sorry.... been there)
The 406 is not too good without a GPS fix because the circle of probability is pretty big.
The latest small yellow boxes with GPS are getting cheap now. They will get help there pretty quick.
Turn the damn switch on .... in your emergency descent! Don't wait for the G switch...

And lastly.... when I visited Artex a few years ago... I asked about the pallets of Duracell D cells in the shipping area. They spot weld them into packs for several hundred dollars each. Can you spell profit margin? I asked how many they would go through. Answer: about 10,000 per month.
Now we know where the money is!!!!

[mtv]

Actually, even a 406 without GPS enabling will narrow down the search to a very "findable" locale, but it'll have to transmit for a few hours to get to that point. THe good news is with a GPS enabled 406, if it even get's one data burst out, RCC is going to know exactly where you're at, and who you are.

I think the number of 121.5 beacons out there is gradually dwindling, so maybe more folks will begin to monitor 121.5 now. Used to was, if you listened very much to that frequency, it'd drive you nuts with all the errant beacons transmitting.

Saving money on a pretty much outmoded technology??

Want to buy a like new Loran receiver??

MTV

[Cowboy]

Usually most of us "up high" will advise ATC when we hear an ELT broadcasting for more than a minute or two. Then let them know when we loose it, trying to narrow down the general area.

[tcj]

I get overwhelmed in a hurry every time I try to research the new ELTs. I thought the reason for getting a new one is they all had GPS built in but I guess not.

If I wanted one that has GPS that will transmit the location what do I look for? Do they require you to buy some kind of yearly subscription?

[Bushcaddy]

The new one from ACK can be wired into your garmin. No Fee. It is also the most reasonably priced 406 ELT.

[tcj]

The new one from ACK can be wired into your garmin. No Fee. It is also the most reasonably priced 406 ELT.

I'm not a technocrat. The only electrical asccessory in my airplane is the starter. Do they all require a seprate GPS?

[NimpoCub]

This has been discussed ad nauseum on SuperCub.org. Go there & do a search.
(Grab a couple beer, you'll be reading for awhile!)

[hotrod150]

.....Saving money on a pretty much outmoded technology??
Want to buy a like new Loran receiver??

About 90% of our airplanes is old outmoded technology. If I needed a new Marvel-Slobberer carb & someone offered me a big discount, you can bet your bippy I'd take it. Ditto for a Bendix magneto.
I realize that eventually we'll be mandated to go to 406 ELT's with GPS technology, but personally I'm hoping that won't be until the prices come way down to a reasonable level. Right now, we have to have ELT's, the 121.5's are still legal, & that freq is still being monitored, so I figure it at least gives me a shot at getting found if activated.

[SkyTruck]

For us taildragger types, an emergency off field landing will likely result with our machines on their back (with the ELT antenna in the mud).
I prefer the personal locator beacon, mounted, so should I have a problem, I can activate it and let it broadcast while I'm hunting for a place to crash.
Should "you" fly into the side of a mountain.... There's probably no sense of urgency! They will find you eventually.
Be easier to not fly into a mountain

[dogpilot]

The price is never coming down, we are talking about airplanes here.

The fact that taildraggers end upside-down is true, so the antenna will be kind of smooshed into the mud. Most units will allow themselves to be activated by a remote, panel mounted, switch. The big advantage of the GPS is your transmission will be picked up with the last signal data stream having your position appended to it as well as your id.

Satellites only pass over every 90 minutes or so, while they may get you transmission, it may not be able to affix your position until it gets into a position it can do its positioning trig. 406 can get a position in one pass, the 121.5 system needed three passes. This does not bode well, as your position may only go out for a short time if your airplane, lets say...is burning. Getting your position picked up by a satellite on 121.5 is moot now anyway, its off.

The units are quite reasonable now, around 5 bills, or the price of a movie and treats & parking for a family of 5 in LA.

One other cheap item one can carry is a cheap throw down cell phone, no contract needed for 911 calling. It is surprising just how often you can get a signal if you climb up a hill. You may have an old one lying around, so it would be free!

So folks really understand that they now depend on a CAP plane with a DF, or a friendly flying overhead or a ground station picking your signal up on 121.5, here is the notice:
Notice Number: NOTC1518

On 1 February 2009, the International Cospas-Sarsat [1] Organization (U.S. included) will terminate processing of distress signals emitted by 121.5 MHz Emergency Locator Transmitters (ELTs). Pilots flying aircraft equipped with 121.5 MHz ELTs after that date will have to depend on pilots of over flying aircraft and or ground stations monitoring 121.5 to hear and report distress alert signals, transmitted from a possible crash site.

[mtv]

dogpilot,

Indeed, the 406 ELT location data, which is derived from polar orbiting satellites takes a while to develop, although with one pass of a satellite, RCC will have a GENERAL location at least. The polar orbiting satellites require between 90 and 110 minutes to orbit. Therefore, there is a PERIOD of time during which they will be overhead, not just a snapshot.

AND, there is a geo synchronous satellite down there over the equator that is continuously monitoring the 406 frequency as well. So, if your 406 alerts, the geosynchronous satellite will at the very least, notify RCC that your beacon has alerted. If you've done your job, as in filed a flight plan, or left an itinerary with a trusted loved one, the search can begin.

The advantage of the GPS enabled ELT is that it sends out a GPS coordinate set with the first burst, and that will be picked up either by a polar orbiting satellite or the geosynchronous satellite. Either way, RCC will both know who you are, AND where you are. Even if the plane burns.

As to the plane on its top preventing an alert, consider that my 406 ELT had a little switch issue last summer, enroute to OSH. The thing started alerting, enroute. I got on the ground, called RCC (who had already called my cell phone) and informed them that I was fine. The ELT alerted again that afternoon, so I removed it from the mount, turned the switch OFF, and disconnected it from the antenna and the airplane. It was sitting on the floor of my airplane at that point, where the back seat would be. Next morning, I got a call from RCC. It was alerting again. I informed them that the switch was OFF, and the thing was not connected to the antenna. No matter, and in fact, they were able to download a position and tell me where the thing was. And, it was within a few yards.

The switch has now been fixed, but remember that the 406 ELT, unlike the old 121.5 ELT, transmits at a full 5 watts nominal power. The 121.5 beacons only transmitted in the VERY low power range, somewhere around 200 to 500 miliwatts. So, these things really hammer out a signal, as compared to the old beacons. Secondly, they transmit in bursts, every 50 seconds, not continuously, like the 121.5 units, which permit these beacons to transmit as this very high power for the same length of time that the 121.5 beacons could.

And, yes, there are beacons now with an onboard GPS unit. The Emergency Lifesaving technology unit http://www.elt406.net/ does. Bring money. This unit, by the way, does not include a 121.5 transmitter....

MTV

[dogpilot]

True the built in GPS ones are big bite, but the ACK 11-06396, accepts NEMA GPS data, which even handhelds put out and is $549 from Aircraft Spruce and Chief had a special on them last month for less. So you can get your position in the stream for less than a grand. Now if your handy, you can buy a multi channel GPS module with a built in antenna, does NEMA and runs for weeks on a tiny battery and will fit in a matchbox. Wire to the above unit I got a SkyLab GPS module off ebay for $20, free shipping. If your plane is fabric, you can stick it on the inside with double back foam tape, otherwise it needs to see the sky , but up by the vent tubes with foam tape works as well.

[hotrod150]

What are you doing with a looney way down there? Being in Arizona, I figgered you'd use a peso for that application.

[dogpilot]

Well I keep a Looney in the desk, as it isn't good for much here. That and it has several useful functions in its absence of a currency role:
Fits battery screws perfectly
Fits FN/FAl screws perfectly (go figure (well they did have the C1A1))
Brings new meaning to heads or tails?


Peso is too soft and keeps changing size

[Cary]

I purchased my Artex ME406 very soon after they were certified, because I figured that it would be better than the 121.5/243.0 Narco that was in there, if I were to go down in the mountains. Later the 121.5 signals were no longer monitored by satellite, so that 121.5 signals would be heard only if an over-flying aircraft were to do as they are supposed to do, monitor 121.5 "if practicable". To me, that's writing on the wall, that if you expect an ELT to be of any benefit, it ought to be a 406 version--and yet, there is a huge reluctance to convert without government mandate. Sure, they aren't cheap (what item labeled "airplane" is?), but what is your life worth? I just find it poor priorities to spend several thousand for some of the things we add to our airplanes, but not spend $1200 (that's what mine cost, including installation) to have the latest technology to be located if things go wrong.

Cary

[flightlogic]

MTV put the most clarity on a complex subject I think, at least in this thread. Read carefully.
I wish the Artex 406 I bought early on would take the GPS data from that little receiver.... but I don't think so.... even for a Looney or two.

[SixTwoLeemer]

True the built in GPS ones are big bite, but the ACK 11-06396, accepts NEMA GPS data, which even handhelds put out and is $549 from Aircraft Spruce and Chief had a special on them last month for less. So you can get your position in the stream for less than a grand. Now if your handy, you can buy a multi channel GPS module with a built in antenna, does NEMA and runs for weeks on a tiny battery and will fit in a matchbox. Wire to the above unit I got a SkyLab GPS module off ebay for $20, free shipping. If your plane is fabric, you can stick it on the inside with double back foam tape, otherwise it needs to see the sky , but up by the vent tubes with foam tape works as well.

I bought one from Chief on that deal last month. I hope to have it installed this month...may have to poach your module idea

I'm really excited about removing that fugly antenna on the plane and replacing it with ACK's new design stick. $529 isn't obscene either