What would you pay for MOGAS

[N1593Y]

Mogas should be available now at KSTS in CA although there is some legal wrangling going on between the two FBO's who both want to provide it. Hard to imagine two FBOs on an airport wanting to sell mogas and fighting about it.

Williams gliderport and Montegue (KSIY) will also have mogas too, and Turlock (O15) and Reid Hillview (KRHV) and Flabob (KRIR) are working on it. The CEH lawsuit is having an effect on California GA airports.

For information about clear gas suppliers in CA, try http://www.cleargas.co/ Their supplier(s) are in NV. There are also suppliers in OR. For a list of distributors, see http://flyunleaded.com/distributors.php

In Washington Martin Airfield, College Place (S95) has just added mogas.

For a list of airports with mogas: http://flyunleaded.com/airports.php

[courierguy]

I know a guy here on BCP, runs mogas with ethanol all the time. It works great for him. I won't say who it is, lets say you all have the utmost respect for him.

Good day

The positive reports from others on the E10 fuel, especially with the Rotax 912's, is encouraging, and the only reason I'm not freaking out! I don't really expect a problem, but I know it takes you less distance on the same amount of fuel. At least my very accurate ScanGauge in the Toyota Yaris shows that my mileage dropped from the mid 40's to the low 40's, and others on a hyper mileage site I hang out on have said the same. I guess it's time to spring for the new larger fuel tanks for the S-7 and just not worry about the small difference. That and maybe I'll just have to fly more so I don't have the long term storage issues to worry about When my 300 gallon tank of the last of the good stuff was low, I was actually doing all I could to eke it out to last as long as possible, I'm pretty conservative and don't like change in my flying equipment, I can get in enough trouble on my own!

[qmdv]

Mogas should be available now at KSTS in CA although there is some legal wrangling going on between the two FBO's who both want to provide it. Hard to imagine two FBOs on an airport wanting to sell mogas and fighting about it.

Williams gliderport and Montegue (KSIY) will also have mogas too, and Turlock (O15) and Reid Hillview (KRHV) and Flabob (KRIR) are working on it. The CEH lawsuit is having an effect on California GA airports.

For information about clear gas suppliers in CA, try http://www.cleargas.co/ Their supplier(s) are in NV. There are also suppliers in OR. For a list of distributors, see http://flyunleaded.com/distributors.php

In Washington Martin Airfield, College Place (S95) has just added mogas.

For a list of airports with mogas: http://flyunleaded.com/airports.php

Hold on there. Williams glider port may get it but only for their own use. To pull gliders with. I do not think that they will have a dispencer that will be sealed by weights and measurs. They tow planes and do not sell fuel. Montague (1O5) not Siskiyou County (SIY) is where I have been looking into supplying mogas at. I have determined that after getting it shipped from Sparks, NV and paying all the taxes that are required and adding a flow charge to give to the city, I cannot be competitive. Nobody uis going to pay over $5.50 per gallon. Even though they can get .35 per gallon back from the state.

Why invest 15K in hardware when as you (N1593Y) says that it will not be available anywhere in a few years.

I wish things were different.

tim

[180Marty]

At least my very accurate ScanGauge in the Toyota Yaris shows that my mileage dropped from the mid 40's to the low 40's, and others on a hyper mileage site I hang out on have said the same.

12Geezer on Supercub said the same thing about his Prius. I asked if the E10 octane rating was 2 to 2.5 octane points higher that the E0. He never responded so I take it that the octane is the same so that means that the E10 is poor quality gas that the ethanol brought up to just good enough. That is a lot of the reason for the drop in mileage. How does your octane rating compare between the two?

[N1593Y]

Hold on there. Williams glider port may get it but only for their own use. To pull gliders with. I do not think that they will have a dispencer that will be sealed by weights and measurs. They tow planes and do not sell fuel.

Apologies, did not mean to imply that the glider port was a GA field that would sell mogas to all comers. Only wanted to illustrate that people are trying to get ethanol free mogas for aviation use in CA.

Montague (1O5) not Siskiyou County (SIY) is where I have been looking into supplying mogas at. I have determined that after getting it shipped from Sparks, NV and paying all the taxes that are required and adding a flow charge to give to the city, I cannot be competitive. Nobody uis going to pay over $5.50 per gallon. Even though they can get .35 per gallon back from the state.
> ...
tim

Have you contacted Medford Fuel in Medford, OR? They are a lot closer to Montegue and I understand they have E0.

[qmdv]

Hold on there. Williams glider port may get it but only for their own use. To pull gliders with. I do not think that they will have a dispencer that will be sealed by weights and measurs. They tow planes and do not sell fuel.

Apologies, did not mean to imply that the glider port was a GA field that would sell mogas to all comers. Only wanted to illustrate that people are trying to get ethanol free mogas for aviation use in CA.

Montague (1O5) not Siskiyou County (SIY) is where I have been looking into supplying mogas at. I have determined that after getting it shipped from Sparks, NV and paying all the taxes that are required and adding a flow charge to give to the city, I cannot be competitive. Nobody uis going to pay over $5.50 per gallon. Even though they can get .35 per gallon back from the state.
> ...
tim

Have you contacted Medford Fuel in Medford, OR? They are a lot closer to Montegue and I understand they have E0.

I have contacted everbody in Medford and Klamath falls and they do not have the necessary permits for CA. I think you have to a be registered California fuel importer to bring it in. Yes we are trying. At KSTS, they are trying but not yet there. Not yet at any airport in CA.

Do to the fact that it is not produced in Califonia, it has to come from Sparks, NV or up by Portland, OR. I can get it but the costs are too high. Nobody will pay $5.50 a gallon or that is not enough will pay it.

Tim

[born2flyak]

Holy crap. It's $7.15/gal for 87 unleaded in McGrath, $8.84 if I remember right for 100LL. $9.95/gallon for 100LL out here in the boonies isn't uncommon, just paid that last week in Aniak. Send some of that cheap gas from down there in America up here!

[wyomingiswindy]

lets say you all have the utmost respect for him.

Stop talking about Zane so much. He's still in the honeymoon phase and trying to lay low.

[hotrod150]

I've been buying E-zero 92 octane mogas at the local CFN/Petit Oil cardlock outlet, for about a 40 cent premium over 92 octane E10 at the local stations. Up until a couple weeks ago, that was around $4 or a bit less. 100LL goes for right around $6 at most airports around here. Nearby, Oak Harbor airport sells 100LL for 5.95, & mogas (octane?) for 5.25 which seems excessive.

Just got my CFN fuel bill for last month-- 92 octane E-zero is up to $4.33 as of a week ago. Curent E10 prices where I gas up the car is about $3.75 for 87 octane & about 4.00 for 92. It seems like it's been changing daily lately.

[180Marty]

Here are some thoughts on where things are headed. Ethanol plants are still owned by little people like me for the most part. Valero did buy some plants when VeraSun went belly up in 2008. As long as the RFS(renewable fuel standard)is in place there is a little hope things will move on like they are but there is a big push to rescind RFS. If that happens ethanol will go broke and the oil companies will buy for pennies on the dollar and have total control----the way it should be according to Big Oil. You see, oil is smart and they know how ethanol helps them sell sub octane gas that would NOT make it on it's own. Even though Courier Guy's Yaris gets a few less miles per tank, it won't damage things as long as the ethanol is blended. One other thing that is interesting, wholesale ethanol is trading about a $1 less than gasoline that keeps rising in price. I know a bunch of people that are using E30 in their non-flex cars with good results but since politics are the way they are, gasoline will probably just keep rising. I actually hope gas goes up to $5 a gallon and cripples the country showing the citizens how powerful Big Oil is.

[qmdv]

I love that you put BIG in front of anything that needs demanizing. How about Big labor. Big government. Big teachers unions. Big super pacs. And do not forget the efing big lobby that got the eth subsidy in the first place. Oh and do not forget big environmental.

I am tired of this big shit telling this small citizen I am not smart enough to make my own decision. Tell me again why it is a good idea to force me to use eth in my car. Oh now I remember. I am forced to buy it cus if not then you could not sell it.

I can hardly wait for some big force to mandate that every existing house has to be retrofited with fire sprinkers by a licenced fire sprinkler contractor cus we know what is best for you. Then I can buy my Beaver.

Tim

[180Marty]

anything that needs demanizing

Tim, you forgot that another name for crude oil is Devil's Tea.

[hotrod150]

I can hardly wait for some big force to mandate that every existing house has to be retrofited with fire sprinkers by a licenced fire sprinkler contractor cus we know what is best for you. Then I can buy my Beaver.

Makes me think of the bumper stickers I see sometimes:
fire sprinklers save lives, union fitters save time & money.
Good advertising for both fire sprinklers & union sprink contractors.

[dirtstrip]

Here is a handy Avgas/jetA/Mogas price tool for anywhere in the price reporting world. Avgas in many places in the EU is the equivalent of $14/gallon. We should all fly there because most auto gas is still ethanol free. User fees extra.

http://www.you-fly.com/airport/

But we should hurry, I just filled out the required forms so that we coop farm member ethanol producers can now export ethanol to the EU. Saturday I had to certify that none of the corn I produced to be used in that ethanol was grown on land reclaimed from rain forests and no slaves or illegal child labor was used and that I allowed employees free association with others. Seriously, no kidding, I sent the form in yesterday.

The two farmer owned plants which I am part of are located in eastern SD. They exported every gallon they produced in the last year, most going to Brazil. Between three years of lower cane yields and a rising demand for cane sugar to make "real pop", not that imitation corn sugar kind you've seen kicked around in the slick Pepsi ads, both helped create a cane ethanol shortfall in meeting Brazil's 20-25% ethanol blend requirement. The important thing to note here is, its not my fault there was ethanol in the gas last year in the US, it's Marty's. We shipped ours out of here. None of it cost you a dime in blender credit payments to oil companies either. What a conundrum, we successfully made PC ethanol but still, I don't feel the love.

In other news more to the topic, 50 miles away, a 100 million gallon/year farmer owned ethanol plant just switched from ethanol over to Bio Butanol to produce bio jet fuel. Initially, a more expensive product but if it proves to be workable, costs will come down and more plants will follow. This is not a major change in the plant itself and the fuel is compatible with both petro based pipeline fuels and ethanol. Bio butanol produces a gasoline engine performance that equals or surpasses auto gas despite a lower btu rating. It has to do with a more even and complete combustion property than gasoline. My goal for everyone that doesn't want to pay for the coming 100LL substitutes (that likely will be priced the same as LL) is that they be able to use 10-15% bio butanol spiked auto fuel as a cheaper substitute. No phase separation or corrosion issues and no expected reduction in range. How many would use it? It is another second generation ethanol derivative bio fuel containing no ethanol, like Swift fuel, that is being tested now.

Make some popcorn dear. The show is about to start.

[Emory Bored]

It takes a lot of trees to make the wind blow.

[180Marty]

The important thing to note here is, its not my fault there was ethanol in the gas last year in the US, it's Marty's. We shipped ours out of here.

A couple of plants I'm in exported also. One plant has major partners from Ireland, so a bunch went over there. I guess one way to look at it, every gallon of ethanol used over there is less gasoline used thus helping hold the price down over here. I had to sign that paper if I sell corn to the ethanol plant also.

[qmdv]

Hey guys, put this on an ethanol thread. This is a mogas thread If a thread was started about blonds vs red heads the corn growers would eventually turn it to an ethanol thread.

Tim

[180Marty]

Here is an idea for you guys. Yesterday our little airport ran out of 100LL. The manager called the supplier and they only had a few hundred gallons on hand. But there is a railcar sitting somewhere down by Omaha that is loaded with 100LL. That is where our next delivery is going to come from. Sooooo, down at the local gas station 87 E0 is priced at $3.669 yesterday. I think they have mark up and $.385 road tax in there so it must be a little over $3 wholesale. Make a deal to rail 30,000 gallons out your way and everybody meet the train with a truck and you guys can be happy. It'd only take 30 1000 tanks to pull it off.

[hicountry]

Here is an idea for you guys. Yesterday our little airport ran out of 100LL. The manager called the supplier and they only had a few hundred gallons on hand. But there is a railcar sitting somewhere down by Omaha that is loaded with 100LL. That is where our next delivery is going to come from. Sooooo, down at the local gas station 87 E0 is priced at $3.669 yesterday. I think they have mark up and $.385 road tax in there so it must be a little over $3 wholesale. Make a deal to rail 30,000 gallons out your way and everybody meet the train with a truck and you guys can be happy. It'd only take 30 1000 tanks to pull it off.

Let me know the next time you know the whereabouts of one of these 100LL railcars. I'll bring my Oklahoma credit car with me.

[180Marty]

Hicountry, Not sure about your post but Sapp Bros. is unloading the railcar today so 100LL will be up here pretty soon. Pretty sure you've heard of Sapp Bros.(they have a truckstop in your town)---evidently they bought our smaller, local jobber.