Survival Gear

[EZFlap]

I just picked up a small Red Cross radio off ebay. It has a hand crank so you can charge the battery. It has a flashlight, AM/FM?Weather and best of all a USB charger for Cell phones.

That sounds like the makings of a good idea... a little hand crank device that can recharge a cel phone, with an adapter for your hand held COM radio and your SPOT PLB. In the event that you wrecked your airplane, broke or shorted the aircraft battery, and wore out your spare box of AA batteries... it SEEMS to me that being able to continue communication efforts by simply cranking a little lightweight widget is a good capability to have.

This is just an opinion from a guy who has fortunately NOT had to go through any serious survival situation or military training. If any of the actual experts know different, I'm all ears.

[182 STOL driver]

I just picked up a small Red Cross radio off ebay. It has a hand crank so you can charge the battery. It has a flashlight, AM/FM?Weather and best of all a USB charger for Cell phones.

That sounds like the makings of a good idea... a little hand crank device that can recharge a cel phone, with an adapter for your hand held COM radio and your SPOT PLB. In the event that you wrecked your airplane, broke or shorted the aircraft battery, and wore out your spare box of AA batteries... it SEEMS to me that being able to continue communication efforts by simply cranking a little lightweight widget is a good capability to have.

This is just an opinion from a guy who has fortunately NOT had to go through any serious survival situation or military training. If any of the actual experts know different, I'm all ears.

Overall don't crash and have to dip into your Survival Gear bag. My extended baggage is filled with 70 lbs of "Survival Gear" from water to ammo ,fire starting stuff ,shelter ,food etc. It's in old kitty litter pails and waterproof boat bags.Get quality stuff like Equipped to survive ,Cheaper than dirt or Military surplus . Spot on glare shield telling everyone where I'm at. Have a game plan before you go and you'll never (or extremely rare) need it. Practice the 5 or 6 "P's" in whatever you do. Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance Been there done that courtesy of the U.S. Army Jungle Warfare School Panama 1966 then Indian Territory across the pond.

[907Pilot]

Where I am, a .45 is the least effective wilderness round, so a .22 (gets you food) or a .44 (protects you from bears) makes way more sense...

Other than that, just went to REI and bought a 4lbs Marmot +0 sleeping bag (they are having their 30% off camping gear sale). It compresses into the size of a basketball, and it is toasty. A tarp is super light weight, and I can build a lean to if I have to. A hatchet and a knife allow me to cut up the food that I catch.

But an old timer friend of mine, Bud Knox, told me a bit of advice that I have to share here. He crashed 3 planes out in the bush during his career out of Fairbanks in the 1970s. Every time he got stranded, and the most important piece of survival gear besides his .22 he said was a candle. Its true, if you bring a slow burning candle and build a good lean to that sucker will heat up that place like a furnace.

Didn't see it posted here anyway, so I thought I'd share.

[58Skylane]

Where I am, a .45 is the least effective wilderness round, so a .22 (gets you food) or a .44 (protects you from bears) makes way more sense...

Other than that, just went to REI and bought a 4lbs Marmot +0 sleeping bag (they are having their 30% of camping gear sale). It compresses into the size of a basketball, and it is toasty. A tarp is super light weight, and I can build a lean to if I have to. A hatchet and a knife allow me to cut up the food that I catch.

But an old timer friend of mine, Bud Knox, told me a bit of advise that I have to share here. He crashed 3 planes out in the bush during his career out of Fairbanks in the 1970s. Every time he got stranded, and the most important piece of survival gear besides his .22 he said was a candle. Its true, if you bring a slow burning candle and build a good lean to that sucker will heat up that place like a furnace.

Didn't see it posted here anyway, so I thought I'd share.

Just a short note about the candle. I had a few in my survival kit that I share between my plane and 4x4's. If your in hot area's for any length of time and you have a candle as part of your survival gear. Keep it wrapped up in a thick towel/blanket or in a cool spot inside the plane. Better yet, wrap it tight with saran wrap and keep in a Ziploc bag. Trust me, I know

[once&futr_alaskaflyer]

A beeswax candle can help with that problem. REI or other outdoor stores that stock those fancy little candle lanterns usually stock them.

[182 STOL driver]

A beeswax candle can help with that problem. REI or other outdoor stores that stock those fancy little candle lanterns usually stock them.

Those "carnewba candles "(spelling ??) in a can for mesketo get out of town work well for light-heat- and anti bug. For water I found this for water -have buckets now http://www.shop.biteandstings.com/produ ... ductId=102

[mountainmatt]

Top 5 (no particular order):
toilet paper
drinking water
pistol
condoms
candy bar

Good on you hotrod150 for sticking it through to get this wonderful product on the market. A must for any survival kit!

http://www.mountaingear.com/pages/produ ... 115371/N/0

[GroundLooper]

[pdknight]

Some quick thoughts on survival gear,
Whatever you have, know where it is on you and how to use it. It had been a while since I went through my initial Air Force survival course, and had to take a refresher last week. The basic compass navigation is a perishable skill, especially at night. There was about an hour of @$$holes and elbows before I finally got myself squared away. It made me think that heading out for a day in the woods(or whatever terrain you fly over) with what you have in the plane and try and make it work for you would be a good idea, especially if you don't use the equipment or skills too often. I plan on heading out with what I take when flying little airplanes and try out all of the gear and make sure I can use it in a pinch, maybe even practice using it one handed and otherwise to simulate an injury. Just some thoughts...

[dogpilot]

One of the things to consider when you look at your survival gear. You will most likely be injured. I went through a few survival courses with both the Navy and the Air Force. They told you to expect to be injured. Many here are obsessed with guns, well you may not be able to use them. They also taught us, tongue and cheek that we where more likely to hurt ourselves with it than do anything useful. They do come in handy as signaling devices (noise and .38 cal flares). When I was a NOAA pilot doing Arctic research, we where required to carry large caliber handguns, primarily to make noise and scare the bear off (we did actual darting and tagging of them). The common wisdom was to file the front sight off, so when the bear shoved it up your exhaust pipe, it didn't hurt so much.

Things you will most likely need are QuickClot, eye antibiotic, triangular bandage, burn treatments and irrigation fluids (your urine works well on YOUR wounds (it is sterile to you)). Why this stuff? Well lacerations are common, your windscreen shatters and you get plexi in your eyes , you sprain or break bones (typically your wrist and legs, as folks hold onto the controls through the crash and violent feedback of the controls breaks your wrists or thumbs and the rudder will break you leg or ankle). Then, planes burn, surprisingly well.

I have used this ex-Army vest for a long time. It is mesh, so it works in all climates. Has loads of pockets for various small survival items and a spot to put people's precious guns. Well, most of the world does not allow you to have a gun, and this was the case in S. America where I flew a lot and Africa, where I flew even more. Everybody else had guns, just not us (The little pin flares work just as well as a .38 up to 15'). However, when I do carry, I use my S&W Combat Magnum .357/.38. Good power, accurate, shoots flares, makes lots of noise, can kill a deer, or a squirrel with shot shells. You do not have to ever clean it, will always work and any moron can use it. I also carry the little survival gun shown. It is an Armalite .22 made specifically for the Israeli Air Force, to fit in an F4 seat pan. Good luck finding one, they only made a few hundred. It folds up small, holds three mags and is especially accurate and light.

Radios are really nice, but they won't work or the battery will be dead when you need it, or at least it always seems so for me. Spot is a nice touch, again hope it works. I have an old ACR Eprib that is SOLAS qualified and has a 20 year battery, still plugging along. Mirrors and smoke are the best signaling devices and I have a small ACR strobe. Flares seem like they should be good, but I have had friends actually hit the helicopter with them and they failed to notice. The best flares are the 25mm rocket parachute flare. They are big, heavy, expensive and are hard to find now. You can get self contained pop out SOLAS parachute flares that do work.

Lots of the items are climate specific. In Alaska, in the spring & summer you really, really, really want mosquito headnets. The rest of the world, repellent more or less works. In the tropics you want to carry Cipro, Flagyl or Septra DS. All these work on the infections you WILL get from the water. These infections WILL kill you from dehydration and electrolyte loss, not a joke, seen it. You need at least 6-8 oz of water immediately after the crash. You will need to take a pee almost immediately to flush out the stress toxins from the enormous dose of adrenaline you received from your adrenal glands in response to the accident. A small amount of food, like a power bar and some electrolyte powder. You need to concentrate on the 1st 48 hours, cause after that your gonna die (statistics).

I have had friends crash on the ice with a nice, well equipped NOAA helicopter. The pilot was more or less OK, the mechanic had a really healthy (or unhealthy, depends on your point of view) deep gash running the length of this thigh. The first thing that happened was the tail boom broke off and sank in the ice lead. Well that is where the ELT is. They had some old EBC-102's in their pocket. But the signal was bouncing off the hills near Nome and where actually stronger than the signal going straight up. So for days they looked in the hills, not the ice. Luckily WX came in on land and shielded that signal and they finally located the true position and found them. Took 3 days, one more and at least the mechanic would have died.

[lesuther]

I just can't remember any accounts *in the lower 48* where a gun in a survival kit meant a hill of beans.

On the other hand, handling immediate acute issues have made crashes survivable: communication, medical needs, water, shelter, and finally food. I carry a PLB, a SPOT, signal mirror fire kit to theoretically address communication. A medical kit complete with percs and salts and lots of bandages, epinephrin, and burn stuff to address some of the medical issues. Some water tabs, some aluminized mylar blankets, and a couple other small jugs of water with some snacks to theoretically address the other issues.

But I place *very* little hope in the survival kit. If I live past the initial impact, the stats say I will probably be injured, and have a fair chance of being seriously injured. Serious sustained injuries has a pretty short survival fuse. The key is getting help fast.

The most important survival tool to me is an accurate flight plan with FSS, a plan with family or friends on the ground, and using flight following as much as practicable.

For IFR plans, the time to contact with S&R personnel is just over half a day. If you are VFR *with flight following*, the time is similar to IFR time. With VFR plans, it is much worse- about a day and a half (although the median, rather than the average, is closer to 24 hours).

If you don't have a flight plan, you'd better be prepared to read a book with your remaining eye if you are lucky: you'll be waiting almost 2 days on average- and that is simply a bridge too far if you have serious injuries.

Flight following is easy to use if it is available. You sometimes have to be pretty high to maintain service (see MCA's for nearby airways, and take off maybe 1k' -2k' ).

http://www.avweb.com/news/avtraining/183268-1.html

[WWhunter]

dogpilot,
That take-down rifle can be easily duplicated. The receiver is basically an AR-7 survival rifle. Now made by Henry rifles: http://www.henryrepeating.com/rifle-survival-ar7.cfm
The stock and other parts can be bought or easily copied. Or better yet, just keep it in its floating stock if one is flying floats.
Thanks for the very in-depth post.

[dogpilot]

Yes, the receiver is related to an AR-7, but that is where the similarity ends. The stock and parts are from a FN/FAL .308 (which Israel had piles of at the time) and actually very nicely machined. They have removable features that are from machined buttons. The receiver is also re-worked with and the barrel has porting(!). AR-7', especially the copies, are über-unreliable. Mainly due to very poor copies of the castings. These had machining in the mag well so it actually fits as it should to the front of the receiver and not wobble. Most of the Henery's and the other 5 or 6 other brands of copies need shimming or filing of the barrel to get them to be more than a single shot rifle.

However, you could, provided you can run a mill. Make something similar to this, or provide the same function. You would still have an AR-7, which is,again, a POS. If your going to make something, start with a bolt action .22, or better yet a .22 mag. There are loads of reference on the web on how to make a breakdown minimalist rifle from an inexpensive .22 bolt action rifle.

Still, a weapon is not actually an essential piece of survival equipment. Unless, you work in the great north, or work for NOAA. We actually had at least 4 guns on the aircraft, personal handgun, small caliber rifle, shotgun, and a .338 or .375 African Magnum. Then again we where Federal officers and actually working with the bear population, either tagging or in close proximity. Since we had a Twin Otter, we also had two three man tents, bags, stoves, a three wheeler, two weeks of rations, blah, blah, blah. Big airplane, lots of room, land anywhere.

In Africa, we didn't carry much food or supplies. Mainly medical supplies. It was hard to crash anywhere in Africa and not be in the middle of people, some actually friendly. You could be over the most god forsaken part of the Ogaden desert, land on a flat piece of land, you were utterly sure there would be nobody nearby (pehaps to drain the lizard). Within 5 minutes folks would appear and try to sell you eggs or some such thing. Like we flew right here to the middle of nowhere to do our shopping. It would blow your mind, it is like they materialized out of the sand.

[182 STOL driver]

dogpilot,
That take-down rifle can be easily duplicated. The receiver is basically an AR-7 survival rifle. Now made by Henry rifles: http://www.henryrepeating.com/rifle-survival-ar7.cfm
The stock and other parts can be bought or easily copied. Or better yet, just keep it in its floating stock if one is flying floats.
Thanks for the very in-depth post.

One of the guys out at airport is a gunsmith /class 3 arms dealer .He's got 12 gauge semi auto( Magazine fed) from Russia -made into a bull pup- I ordered 2 . Magazine 5-20 rounds .Slugs , double ought and bird shot.

[Sig220]

Dogpilot, I have to congratulate you on a really nice survival kit/gear display. But this part.......

The stock and parts are from a FN/FAL .308 (which Israel had piles of at the time) and actually very nicely machined.

is incorrect. If you check your .22 rifle closely, it will be printed on the barrel that it was made in the U.S. (Costa Mesa, CA) as well as the model "AR-7". The rifle was made for the Israeli Air Force and years later imported back to the U.S. market.

Neither the stock or the parts of the Armalite .22 rifle are from a FN/FAL rifle. I have both rifles..... the Armalite (pictured) and both a fixed stock FN/FAL and a Para FN/FAL (has a folding stock) none of the parts of the Armalite and FN/FAL are interchangeable.

Great discussion, btw.

[Zzz]

I just can't remember any accounts *in the lower 48* where a gun in a survival kit meant a hill of beans

I tend to agree with this to a certain extent. I'd rather be well equipped with supplies and firearms in any situation, survival especially, but the things that are going to keep you alive are actually on a very short list. Signalling equipment (PLB), water, concentrated energy food, emergency medical supplies for treating wounds and stopping bleading and swelling, and if possible a wide spectrum antibiotic like Cipro in pill form in the event you're out there long enough for infection to set in, which is certainly possible with burns. A firearm I think is mostly a sleep aid.

However, any medical supplies are only as good as your medical training. That applies to any survival situation of any severity-- knowledge is the most useful tool. Everyone wants to buy a new lightweight pistol or fancy equipment, but an in-depth first aid or field medicine class is probably money better spent. Have you ever thought about how exactly you would handle a compound fracture or a severe burn? What about an inexplicably unconscious survivor?

Easy for me to say, but I have yet to get training myself. Not knowing what to do is my worst fear.

[Cary]

I think the most important survival "thing" is the ability to use the other survival "things"--and that takes at least a little training. Years ago I had an abbreviated USAF survival course, which taught me just enough to know that I really don't want to have to survive a crash. Realistically it could happen--I've had one complete engine failure which resulted in an off-airport landing, and I don't think there's a rule anywhere that says it couldn't happen again. But I'd just as soon it didn't.

I do carry a rather complete survival kit (weighs about 40#), which includes an Armalite .22--which incidentally may not be of Browning quality but shoots straight and has never jammed with CCI Mini-mags. I don't think of it as my salvation, though. I think getting found fast is best, so I have both an early ELT (don't recall the brand, but it was popular in the early days of ELTs and uses D cell batteries) and a new ACR PLB, both of which work well.

No point in detailing the rest of my kit, but it does include shelter, food, water, cooking ability, first aid supplies, etc.

Cary

[jomac]

i especially like the vest idea. i have one i use when headed west, and mostly contains, wproof matches, small 1st aid stuff, .25 auto, the spot and cellphone and some other misc stuff to chew on and has an internal bladder with water, about 2 qts i believe. ogio makes it for us dirtbike guys and it works. one idea not seen here yet is this one. pick your favorite instructor and have him/her spend some time with you on how to successfully wreck your plane. think about it, put down correctly in the best available spot, us should be OK as far as no injuries. then able to spend your time on activating your spot and your ELT. my first high quality instructor, now a skywest captain, used to force me to deal with no power a lot...getting within 50 ft of the ground with a solid plan on how to put 'er down and reminding me that when u get that close, it probably wont be a nice spot, but fly it to the ground anyway...also reminding me that most times all you are gonna have available is what u r wearing at the time, as when u do get down, you will most likely be getting the hell out of your bird ASAP...!

[kevbert]

People who say a gun has no place in a survival kit have a definition of survival that is too narrow. There are plenty of situations that don't involve airplane crashes where it might make all the difference in your survival! You might use its presence to deter violent criminals, you might need to use it to signal others, you might use it to collect some dinner, etc.

Last fall I flew into Chamberlain Basin with the pooperati in October after the ranger was gone. We had the place to ourselves, it was fantastic. When it was time to leave, the weather had gone to crap. No problem, wait a day, that's why an extra day's food got packed. The next day, it was fine, and out I went. However, what if the weather was still bad? The dogs would be whining for their supper, but all of their food would now be gone. Should you risk trying to fly out to feed yourself or the mutts, or do you decide to stay figuring you can go blast some squirrels? Without a gun and with no food, I probably wouldn't wait for more than a day or two before I would decide to risk it.

I think Gump once suggested that a good book was an essential piece of equipment to avoid flying in bad weather, and I think that's another great idea. Anything which will give you the comfort to make a better decision that will contribute to your survival can technically be regarded as survival equipment.

[lesuther]

However, any medical supplies are only as good as your medical training.

You can find a lot in BLS ("Basic Life Support") training texts. They are an interesting read in any case. With a knowledgeable physician, PA, or NP, you should be able to form a small kit of important meds as well (a few pain med pills, epi's, injectables, and aspiration), other kit items, and be at least casually informed on how to use them in the assessment of trauma, stabilization of shock, punctured lung, etc., for a passenger. I'm not so sure if I end up being critically injured that I'll be able to do anything but hope I get found in a short time after the crash or die. This will probably be as good as it gets in the real deal. It doesn't take a huge volume, either, depending on how focused you are on the realities of the important bits of the real aftermath of real accidents.

I tend to contemplate surviving the impact, surviving immediate trauma, assisting/being assisted by passengers, and getting found as fast as possible above any other concerns, and this last one is the one that I have the greatest ability to plan ahead for that could save my life if I am critically injured in an accident.