720' one-way strip in the mountains

[jsbc]

Hi Guys,

Like a lot of others out there, I am looking for the perfect airplane for my circumstances. I've read extensively on this forum and others. Lots of useful info. My situation is that I am building a short one-way strip in the mountains. Here are the specifics:

I moved to the BC wilderness about five years ago and have been itching to get an airplane ever since. I live in the mountains but have figured out that I could carve out a 720' slightly uphill one-way-in strip with approach over a river. The wind varies but would often be in my favour. My nearest alternate is about 30 minutes away.

My question is: What airplane should I look at getting? I have carefully considered a Citabria GCBC (I love this plane and have about 200 hours and 40-50 hours of basic acro in an ECA) or perhaps a Maule. I don't need a plane that can handle super rough field landings but it does have to be able to land short. At the far end of my strip are tall trees and I would have to commit to land about 200' feet before the threshold.

Of course in an ideal world I would love to have an amphib for landing on local lakes. And a four-seater (Maule?) for the versatility it offers. And an acro capability (Citabria?) If money were no object I could also look at a Supercub or a Husky (both beautiful airpanes). Some of the new LSAs look great: the Highlander and others with the Rotax 912 ULS look impressive.

But after five years of saving up I only have about 40-50k and not much prospect of increasing that anytime soon. So I feel that it's time to stop dreaming and start flying again, even if my airplane doesn't do everything I have ever dreamed of.

One plane that I have been thinking about is the Cessna 150/150. Not much in terms of useful load, I know, and not the lowest stall speed out there but it has a bit of power, drops quickly with 40 degree flaps and I guess one of the benefits would be that I could stomp on the brakes once I was down without nosing over. Then there is the increased crosswind stability of a nosewheel.

Not my ideal, not my dream perhaps, but I really want to get flying and for around 30k plus import taxes, upgrades and so on, I might be able to get in the air. I would mostly be flying solo, low and slow looking for wildlife, going to the store for a few odds and ends in the local town etc.. and so the weight limits wouldn't be a killer.

My mind is not set, however, and I know you guys out there have a huge amount of experience. Really grateful for your thoughts. Especially on the 150/150.

[akflyer2001]

For the kind of flying you are wanting to do I would go with the Maule. Its a 4 place plane, can haul a load
and has a short field take off. They do well in short field operations.If you go with the 150 Cesena I don't think you will be happy do to the size of the plane. Don't get me wrong, they are a great little plane but not what your looking for. A Cub is a outstanding performer for the short field operations. Do great with a load and excellent in short field take offs. I fly a Stinson and it works for me and the kind of flying I do here in Alaska. With the larger engine it can get in and out of the short strips, take on a load, easy to fly. Just my thoughts. Good luck and fly safe..

Ken

[Nizina]

You severely restrict the options with the $30k entry price. NTL, I have owned both an M5 Maule and a Cessna 150/150 and both could handle a 750 foot uphill strip most of the time, but neither would be my choice for what you have described. BTW, what is the elevation of this property? If it were up to me, I would buy a Supercub or a Husky, but would also seriously consider a Scout. All three are excellent back country airplanes and give you the margins that you need for a short one way strip in the mountains. You might be able to get by with a Cessna 172 straight tail with an O-360 as a more economical option.

Nizina

[A1Skinner]

If your going to be flying solo and not to worried about the weight I would have to agree with you on the Citabria 7GCBC. Thats what I fly, and have it on 31" ABW's. If most of your landing places are relatively smooth I would just run 8.00s or 8.50s. They will be plenty sufficient. 720' is way more then enough to get in and out of with that plane. Its great for low and slow, I use mine for scouting for wolves and other game, but it also gives you a decent cruise speed over a 150. And the acro abilities are always fun.
I did my training on a 150, and I really like it(still have it), but after flying the Citabria I have a hard time getting back into the 150. I run 8.00s on mine and have VG's on it. It wouldnt have a problem getting in and out of 720', as long as the grass is mowed and the snow is plowed. I took off from 3"s of snow and used up at least half of a 2000' grass strip. With the Citabria the takeoff roll doesn't change much with a bit of snow or grass.
A Maule is nice if you are going to pack a lot of weight or have more then one passenger frequently, but the cost of operating also increases with more HP, CS prop, and so on. Keep that in mind and good luck hunting. Be sure to keep us in the loop as to what you get.

[182 STOL driver]

Depending on the "access" -obstructions on either end -like trees etc. I'd go with a Straight Tail 182 ,or if you can find it a Cessna 180 -depending on $$$$.Manual Flaps #1 without a doubt . Maule would be really cool or PA-20 with enough horse power. What Density Altitude do you see -MSL corrected for Temp,& Altimeter setting ? Stol KIT( SPORTSMAN) and lots of power would be nice .Big tires,wheels,brakes will help. Light weight airframe with lots of wing area and low Total aircraft weight when operating will also have a lot of effect on performance. Things you see in advertisements and POH add 20% to there figures for real world what it will do,these figures are for new aircraft under ideal conditions . I'd add a Lift Reserve Indicator and get a copy of Mountian Flying Bible by Sparky Imeson . When and If you ever get your "Dream-bird" 2000 I would load sandbags to simulate people and equipment . Go to a airstrip where you have a lot more room (at same Altitude etc) and set out some cones for distances ,When you can safely operate in 1/2 or so of your 720' strip AT GROSS your ready for the "real thing" -Go in light yourself and maybe 1/2 fuel.Take off and keep doing it 50-100 times . Add more weigh (fuel-People etc) a little at a time .Keep track of your progress under different wind,density altitudes,weight etc. conditions in a note pad in glove box. 2-3 seat altenitives would be PA-18 or PA-12 with flaps. Stinson 108-2 or 3 with more than 165 hp would also be good.

[hotrod150]

I've noticed a kind of thread creep if these kinds of discussions-- a figure of $30K is mentioned but a few posts laters people are suggesting Huskies Supercubs & Scouts ($75K and up). A while back someone asked for suggestions on what to get with $200K to spend -- seemed like that gave everybody plenty of financial leeway but pretty soon people were talking about Found Bushhawks ($250K & up). Not realistic or helpful to the original poster.

[mtv]

There is quite a variety of aircraft that could safely operate from a 750 foot strip, depending on the density altitude and load, of course.

Your price point is pretty low, and frankly, I think you're going to have a hard time finding a GOOD 150 hp Citabria for that money. BUt, maybe.

In any case, the biggest factor in short field landings is the pilot. Many airplanes will operate from a strip that size, but only if flown well.

Then, the next question is how much margin are you comfortable with?

Save some of that cash to buy a good bit of gas to practice BEFORE you take that airplane in there the first time.

MTV

[dirtstrip]

These are from Barnstormers. Gets you close.

1976 BELLANCA CITABRIA 7KCAB • $28,000 http://www.barnstormers.com/Bellanca,%2 ... ifieds.htm
AVAILABLE FOR SALE • 1900 Total time aircraft and engine. Fabric in great shape and tests fine. Paint 4, interior 6. Aircraft in Annual. Fuel Injection w/ 150 HP. New air filter. Flys straight and true. Easy to handle and looking for a good home. No damage. Part of estate. Always hangared. Offers accepted. Located near Sarasota, FL (SRQ). • Contact Herk Strumpf, Friend of Owner - located Boca Raton, FL USA • Telephone: 941-232-9696 . • Posted January 24, 2012 • Show all Ads posted by this Advertiser • Recommend This Ad to a Friend • Email Advertiser • Save to Watchlist • Report This Ad • View Larger Pictures • Finance New Lower Rates!


MAULE M-4 JETASEN • $37,500 •
http://www.barnstormers.com/Maule,%20Ma ... ifieds.htm
AVAILABLE FOR SALE OR TRADE • 1964 Maule Ser. #83. Disassembled and Recovered 2006. Continental 0-300 BCD 640 SMOH, 40 STOH. O SPOH and New # 5 Cly. 2340 Total Time, no damage history. New beefed up Kosola motor mount, Recent carb. ovh.. New accelerator pump. Chrome clyinders, Bracket air filter, Auto gas STC. Hangered. New Whelen tip strobes, Scott 3200 tailwheel, upgraded Cleveland wheels and brakes, New heavy duty 700-6 BF Goodrich tires & tubes, new upholstry carpets dash cover and Airtex headliner. King KX-155 Nav Com, Localizer, Narco transponder and encoder. Too much new stuff to list. Fast & reliable. • Contact MARK L. SWEENEY - SHAMROCK AVIATION, Owner - located ST JOHN, WA USA • Telephone: 509 648-3640 . 509-648-3640 • Fax: 509-648-4000 • Posted January 30, 2012 • Show all Ads posted by this Advertiser • Recommend This Ad to a Friend • Email Advertiser • Save to Watchlist • Report This Ad • View Larger Pictures • Finance New Lower Rates!

[A1Skinner]

The above airplanes look like they would get you close. But keep in mind the cost of import. When I did my Citabria, it cost me about 15k by the time I was done, including having it flown from Maine to Manitoba, where I went to pick it up. You have to send the prop out for inspection if it hasn't been done for 10 years, comply with any A/Ds, and get it all inspected. Things seem to be a bit more relaxed south of the border (no offence), and Transport Canada can be VERY sticky if they want to. Buy a plane that is as close to stock as possible and you will have the easiest time importing it. The more mods that are done to it, the more complicated and expensive it will get.

[svanarts]

If you're open to the idea there are some great experimentals that would work for you too. The Highlander, the Rans S7, Zenitch CH-701. Probably closer to your price point too.

[dirtstrip]

OK, I have a plan. Each of us BCP guys will take a turn ferrying jsbc's plane to him for free across the US and fly it to the next BCP members place where the change of pilots and plane occurs. They will exchange the B.C. bound plane for that BCP members own and fly that back home, and so on. The plane gets to where it is going and each of us gets home too. Except for the last guy, I will take the first leg.

[flattie45]

If you are seriously considering a 150/150, I would suggest looking at a Cessna 140, especially if it has a larger engine. One does not think "STOL" when a 140 is mentioned, but they do all right with more power. There is a 130 HP C-140 on barnstormers for 27k, as well as a nice looking one with a 115 HP O-235 for 25k.

Roomy? Not really, unless you are solo. Load hauler? Not really. I had one with an O-290 and extended baggage. I could haul a cooler and some bags. Most of the time I left the co-pilot controls out for passenger comfort or when hauling 15 gallon gas jugs. Expensive to own and operate? Not really. Fun? Oh yeah

[Emory Bored]

Just a thought. I've not got the experience to make a recommendation but I've pencil whipped all those experimentals listed. $40K will maybe finish a Zenith 750 (continental) or a Rans S6/S7 I think. I don't see a way to a Highlander for under about $55K. Have you considered a Taylorcraft F-19? I have a friend in AK with one and he's pretty happy off his home strip. It's longer and flatter though but still a one-way.

[svanarts]

EmBo, to build one yes that's about right. Almost exactly what I spent building my Rans S6. But you can buy them chapter than you can build them if you shop around.

[svanarts]

Here's one:

http://www.ransclan.com/forums/showthre ... %95-42-000

[hotrod150]

....1976 BELLANCA CITABRIA 7KCAB • $28,000 http://www.barnstormers.com/Bellanca,%2 ... ifieds.htm
AVAILABLE FOR SALE • 1900 Total time aircraft and engine. Fabric in great shape and tests fine. Paint 4, interior 6. Aircraft in Annual. Fuel Injection w/ 150 HP. New air filter............

Must not be anything to write home to Mom about if a new air filter is a high point.

[jsbc]

Thanks for the response, guys. Lots of good info. I take the point about practicing before I try the real thing. And I will. My alternate is at least a couple of thousand feet long so plenty of learning space there.

Elevation here is 2000 ft, forgot to mention that. Gets up to about 30 celsius in the summer (85F). Slope of runway is probably two or three degrees in my favor. I can take down a couple of trees, even out the ground and cut the grass myself, so no problem there. In terms of obstacles definitely one-way in. Tall trees at northern end. The other end is nice and open (once I get at it with my chainsaw) with a 12 ft drop onto a river at the threshold. And, yes, I have Sparky's Mountain Flying Bible, great book.

I love the Citabria but am not sure about the ECA (low power & no flaps) and the KCAB (no flaps). The GCBC certainly sounds like an option though (what's the real life stall speed like with full flaps?). And just about within my price range. If I get one up here in Canada it would save the trouble and the cost of importing but probably cost a bit more. Doesn't sound like the 150/150 idea had too many takers. I certainly don't like the electric flaps.

I think for my uses, the 180s and bigger engine Maules might just have too much hp and take too much gas. (M4 145hp sounds like a possibility). Don't need the speed either.

Highlander would certainly be an option if I could get one on budget. Folding wings would save me 5-10k building my own hangar too as I could squeeze it in next to my truck. Hadn't looked at the Rans S6 and S7, but I will. Do they fly solo from the back or front? And a Cub is another option. What kind of hp would I need? (Supercubs and Huskys great planes but out of my league in terms of money.)

Thanks again guys.

[Emory Bored]

S6=SBS S7=Tandem front seat solo.

[dirtstrip]

Just a thought. I've not got the experience to make a recommendation but I've pencil whipped all those experimentals listed. $40K will maybe finish a Zenith 750 (continental) or a Rans S6/S7 I think. I don't see a way to a Highlander for under about $55K. Have you considered a Taylorcraft F-19? I have a friend in AK with one and he's pretty happy off his home strip. It's longer and flatter though but still a one-way.

Right about that Highlander. I know of a used one just purchased this fall, 60K, with the big tires. Most used experimental are even more than that 30K limit unless you build your own and place no value on your labor. The best buys are in the used certified market, not LSA. And as for new, sales numbers may be down on the new ones but the numbers on the price tags sure are not.

[Emory Bored]

....1976 BELLANCA CITABRIA 7KCAB • $28,000 http://www.barnstormers.com/Bellanca,%2 ... ifieds.htm
AVAILABLE FOR SALE • 1900 Total time aircraft and engine. Fabric in great shape and tests fine. Paint 4, interior 6. Aircraft in Annual. Fuel Injection w/ 150 HP. New air filter............

Must not be anything to write home to Mom about if a new air filter is a high point.

Fresh air in tires, chrome plated dipstick.