Survival Gear

[Dokmow]

I have a survival vest I wear, and a survival kit (backpack) on the back of the passenger seat. In the backpack there are more long term survival items, which the old posts reflect. In my vest, which is a surplus military MOLE mesh vest, I carry items for both survival and things easy to reach in the airplane.
Survival pocket kit -same as Oregon 180's
Fixed blade knife
Fire starter- easy start even when wet
Hurricane (waterproof) matches
Multi-use tool (leatherman)
Garbage bags & Parachute cord
Hand held radio
Flashlight with both red and white
Lead slinging device (as RobBurson puts it)

I need to aquire a PLB for the vest and with the new less expensive models, that should happen in the near future. I do have and use a SPOT, but that is not the same thing.

[182 STOL driver]

I'm reviewing and re-thinking my survival stuff. Like others, I think I need to keep the good stuff on my body. I have collected a bunch of items over time but, since I'm starting fresh, I wanted to ask: What what do you consider your top five items, in order of importance?

Thanks,

My survival kit(s) occupy 3 different levels of complexity. 2 are carried in 2 seperate "cat litter"containers
and third is in "boat Bag-waterproof" that hangs over the back of the seat .everthing else goes in the extended baggage weighs about 40lbs. Have day glow vest (from construction site) with pockets . SPOT
is velcroed to top of glare shield .Rifle/shotgun is below the extended baggage floor .First aid kit is velcroed to baggage door . Lots of stuff with tent and sleeping bags total load is about 55lbs.2 gallons of water adds
another 15 llbs.
Top 5 = 1 Shelter ,2 fire, 3 Comm, 4 food and water ,and 5 weapons and fishing gear.

[mtv]

For those who hang their survival packs on the backs of airplane front seats, I hope your front seats don't fold. With forty pounds hung on the seatback of YOUR seat, in a suddent deceleration, that's forty more pounds of acceleration your shoulder harnesses are going to have to absorb and decelerate.

I would NOT hang survival gear on the back of a folding seat back for that reason. I've seen too many people even with shoulder harnesses who kissed the instrument panel or some other hardware during a sudden deceleration, and I don't want to add any more mass to that process.

Having a kit where you can get at it quickly is good, but frankly, if you've got a well thought out survival vest, and can't get anything else out of the plane, you should still be in pretty good shape to survive.

"The stuff in the back (or on the seat back) is camping gear. If it's not on your PERSON when you go out the door, it's not survival gear" Ray Tremblay, Anchorage, AK.

MTV

[WWhunter]

An addition item I keep in my vest is a small GPS. This is in the same pocket as my Silva Compass. You can pick up a "Gecko" or something similar for less than $100. I personally carry my Garmin CXS60 that has topo features for which ever area I am currently flying in. I have spare micro SD's that cover other places. I carry several different knives, an AF issue survival knife, a nice locking folder, and multi-tool. I also usually have some sort of "Swiss Army" knife that has tweezers and toothpick. Its amazing how many times a persons needs these items when living in the woods for any time.
Also I have a sharp folding knife zip-tied to the upright right near the panel. This is my "get out of a wreck" tool.
For a stobe you can get those tiny clip on type button celled lights that have LED and have a flash setting. They are about the size of a quarter (1/4" thick). This is clipped to my vest zipper. http://www.inovalight.com/micro.html
WW

[shortfielder]

You might contact Rob Hunter, Prepared PIlot. He is the resident pro. I also have been reading a book that I think is very good. It talks about the basics for the most part, and what is critical, and how to take care of those critical functions.

98.6 degrees. Th Art of Keeping Your Ass Alive by Cody Lundin. Easy/ineresting reading. And I am not avery good reader.

Gary

[182 STOL driver]

[quote="mtv"]For those who hang their survival packs on the backs of airplane front seats, I hope your front seats don't fold. With forty pounds hung on the seatback of YOUR seat, in a suddent deceleration, that's forty more pounds of acceleration your shoulder harnesses are going to have to absorb and decelerate.

I would NOT hang survival gear on the back of a folding seat back for that reason. I've seen too many people even with shoulder harnesses who kissed the instrument panel or some other hardware during a sudden deceleration, and I don't want to add any more mass to that process.




Seat Back weight is 8 lbs rest is in extended baggage with restraints .Have more personal experience at survival than the entire BackcountryPilots.org
combined I know what works and doesn't. I spent 30 years in the Military flying helicopters ,which included seven years in southeast Asia ,having what
I referred to as "hostile aircraft modification" -chief tester for the shoulder harness . Spent a lot of time in place where the only thing there were North Vietnamese and 2 steppers -tigers and elephants skipping along the ho Chi Minn trail. I was homeless and didn't know it -anything past that is a up grade. It's ATTITUDE that will get you thru you next (if there is a next) survival experience . Lots of people watch "survivor man or man vs wild" on TV but very few will ever expedience the thrill of coming down 200 miles into enemy territory -and live to tel there grand kids. Been there done that.

I pack survival gear to survive in whatever environment I'm in at the time -and even time of year. No use carrying a down parka when you going down in the Death Valley in summer. But if your flying across the Rocky mountains in northern Colorado in late fall or Winter the items in your survival kit should change to meet the mission. Everything I do now has a purpose in life after being at deaths door so many times. I enjoy flying for the fun of it now but know I can survive if I want . I was shot down and lived to enjoy coming home -which many of Brothers got there name on a big Black WALL in Washington ,D.C.

Bill Reid
90th. SOG 67-74

[Savannah-Tom]

For those who hang their survival packs on the backs of airplane front seats, I hope your front seats don't fold. With forty pounds hung on the seatback of YOUR seat, in a suddent deceleration, that's forty more pounds of acceleration your shoulder harnesses are going to have to absorb and decelerate.
MTV

Excellent point, but actually understated. In a mild crash, you can easily survive a decelleration of 10 or 20 Gs when equipped with proper restraints. Your 40 pound pack on the seat back, though, will be transformed into a 400 to 800 pound load on the seat. Now you are talking some serious forces.

tom

[182 STOL driver]

For those who hang their survival packs on the backs of airplane front seats, I hope your front seats don't fold. With forty pounds hung on the seatback of YOUR seat, in a suddent deceleration, that's forty more pounds of acceleration your shoulder harnesses are going to have to absorb and decelerate.
MTV

Excellent point, but actually understated. In a mild crash, you can easily survive a decelleration of 10 or 20 Gs when equipped with proper restraints. Your 40 pound pack on the seat back, though, will be transformed into a 400 to 800 pound load on the seat. Now you are talking some serious forces.

tom

Tom:
Read my post -back of seat is about 8 lbs.

here's another

Jeff & Flight:
I have 2 survival kits packed in old kitty litter containers (waterproof and can be used for ???) Food and food stuffs in one -shelter and tools in other both are housed in a "crew bag " I carried when I was in army weight about 30 lbs. I have another waterproof bag about 14 lbs (Bass Pro Shop -Yellow) that has more stuff including spare Batteries and handheld GPS and hand held Comm radio,shovel with ax,machete,Kbar knife, 200ft. of parachute cord,1/2 dozen big trash bags (orange).Signal mirror -poncho and signal flares.Waterproof matches and candles -bug repellent.I use AA batteries for everything so I buy them by the box and keep them cool as much as possible.Tools(15lbs)are in tool bag with 1/4" set with wobble sockets and extensions -good ratching screwdrivers (SEARS) and open ends from 1/4 inch up to 7/8 and a 3/8 socket set. Spark Plug tools and spare Plugs wrapped up in "seal a meal" plastic. Roll of .032 saftey wire and good roll of Duct tape. Odds and ends spare screws and hardware in old pill bottles.1 spare tube and small portable compressor (self contained with battery and light) to air up a tire if needed.Extra clothes for the Mission in old gym bag -enough for 5 days . SPOT is on my Glare shield or attaches to my back pack with velcro . Sunscreen xp-50 1 bottle. 30 Caliber Carbine with about 200 rounds (20 Tracer for flares) if things get really tough. Fishing gear to try and catch some dinner > and something to cook it in. I spent 14 weeks in the Jungle in Panama so I know what it take to get thru.I pack differently summer or winter -deserts or Mountains.Most of the stuff is avaiable at most camping -Army Surplus stores.Several Flashlights -batteries for everything I try to keep using standard "AA" batteries to keep standard. Several sleeping bags and tent are also in back of 182 extended baggage. Several folding chairs also. Everything weighs in at a little less than 70 lbs. and secured with ratching cargo straps.

--------------------
Bill Reid CPA>AOPA>PAMA>VHPA>N5502B
A&P /I.A. CPA Rigger,Pilot Boulder City,NV. 61B

[slowhawk]

Some good points and ideas here; the important ones being as 182 Stol driver notes, is having the right attitude. Also gaining experence with survival techniques makes a big difference in your attitude and confedence when suddenly faced with an unplanned stop.

ASW also makes a good point; know your equipment.

During 16 years in Special Ops, i got to experence 3 unplanned trips to the ground. Only 1 of those time was i able to salvage any equipment from the wreakage, so i can say from experence that what you have on you is most likely what you will have to work with. The important part is to do the thinking about and studying as well as "hands on" of learning the techniques before you get in the situation. In most cases if you know the how and why, even if you dont have the right equipment you can do some improvising that will do the job.

As 182 STOL driver said; been there, done that

[whynotfly]

Lots of very good points. I wear a fishing vest that I found at sporting goods store that works well that has the essentials in/on it. Including Spot.

In the winter there is one thing that I know I would want to have if I went down in the woods, (in addition to my vest) and that is footwear that will keep my feet from freezing if I am able to move about. I know that most pilots are a bit picky about the shoes they wear when flying. But I would not want to find myself out in the snow looking at a burning plane in my tennis shoes.

[once&futr_alaskaflyer]

In the winter there is one thing that I know I would want to have if I went down in the woods, (in addition to my vest) and that is footwear that will keep my feet from freezing if I am able to move about. I know that most pilots are a bit picky about the shoes they wear when flying. But I would not want to find myself out in the snow looking at a burning plane in my tennis shoes.

"Dressing for the crash" probably trumps any other survival equipment idea on here, IMO. Well, besides "avoid the crash."

A fire is nice but if I am dressed properly I don't need a fire. I can survive more than a week without any additional calories if I am dressed properly. Mosquito dope is great but if dressed properly etc etc. You get the idea.

[EZFlap]

Hey I once watched a 30 minute wilderness survival video... I'm an expert !!! Now where did I put that solar still made out of Saran Wrap and a Dixie Cup?

To the people who actually went through military survival school and then the SEA jungle school of hard knocks after that... and lived through it... I'll take YOUR advice on what to carry in the airplane !

Survival gear specific for the mission (the geographic area you're in) makes a lot of sense to me. Water is universally #1 need, shelter is probably a close second. But neither of these things can easily fit in a pilot's vest.

Something to think about on this subject:

When an airplane burns up post-crash, I am guessing that an all-metal tailcone (fuselage behind the wing) is usually left intact. So lightweight stuff like sleeping bag and tent could possibly be secured back there, not too tail-heavy, and not get burned up?

[mtv]

EZ Flap,

Yeah, SEA School prepared me REALLY well for sleeping out at -45... Not too much jungle survival in this country--but as you suggest, the basics of survival are pretty consistent, regardless of where you wind up.

As to putting your kit in the tail cone: that IS a LOT of weight to put that far aft, and yes, in most airplanes, it would cause some serious issues with "normal" loading of the plane, CG-wise. Try calculating a weight and balance for twenty pounds in that location in your plane. There's not much room back there, either, and access is a difficult issue. How do you get the stuff back there, AND secured, and how would you get it OUT of there? No access doors back there on any plane I've met.

As I noted earlier, you can carry a good bit of stuff on your person, and you might be surprised at how nice an outfit you can make from just what you have on you. THAT is the mark of someone who knows how to survive--not the size of the kit, but the utility of the tools and the skills of the individual in using the stuff. I've known people who you could turn loose in the wilds of northern Alaska in mid winter with practically nothing for tools, and if you came back in a week, they'd have a nice shelter, a fire going, and dinner on a stick. THOSE are the guys I like working with.

Again, as Ray Tremblay--who ran traplines, drove dogs, worked as a game warden, and flew all over Alaska for fifty years said: "Survival Gear is what you have in your pockets when you go out the door."

MTV

[182 STOL driver]

Have a friend who is professional 135 pilot who sent me the following about mr. MTV -----

Hey 182STOL,

I found out that mtv guy who is pose-ing as some sort of an expert on
all matters in the air and on the ground is actually considered kinda
Bozo by several people in the know. According to that friend up in AK I
told you about, this hotshot could not pass one too many checkrides and
is un-employable up there for professional flying work. My buddy up
there is the same combat veteran category as you (but Navy fix-wing). He
said this guy is known to be kind of a jerk. Apparently he fancys
himself as a big-shot opinion-maker on the internet groups and
inexperienced people listen to him, but the AK guys that actually fly
more than talk don't take him all that serious. Suposedly he is no
longer in Alaska because of the checkride problem. I remember a guy like
that in the early 1990's aviation "usenet" newsgroups named Captain
Zoom. He talked a great game and made himself sound like a real aviator,
but was actually a total idiot. For a while he published a magazine that
trash-talked anyone who disagreed with him, but anyone who paid to
advertise in his magazine got rave reviews from "the editor" Captain
Zoom. Maybe this mtv character is the same guy popping back up as a
back-country bush pilot expert on everything? If that guy has been on
government-sponsored luxury vacations in Laos or Cambodia or Panama or
wherever all over hell you went for 30 years then I might listen to what
he thinks about crash survival. Lots of fake experts and wanna-bees on
the internet chatrooms.

[gbflyer]

ouch!!! Hello Hot Air.

gb

[Glidergeek]

One note on seat belts and restraints if you notice your belts are only rated for 1500 lbs on most seat belts in planes 2500 lbs in cars (go figure). So if you weigh 150 lbs and decelerate at 10 Gs.....well you're at the limit, if you're a little heavier you're over. Got a lotta shit in the back? Maybe gettin a close up look at your gyros.

[whee]

gotta agree with gb. no need to get your panties in a wad because someone disagrees with the way you think about survival gear

[flynengr]

Sounds like sour grapes to me too. Lots of good info here from your aviating Beverly Hillbillies act to what some folks like to keep in their pockets. Bringing imaginary friends to the debate doesn't further your argument. After all, anybody "real" who talks that kind of smack ought to have the balls to put their name on it.

Flynengr

[Superdave]

gotta agree with gb. no need to get your panties in a wad because someone disagrees with the way you think about survival gear

That is funny Whee I remember you getting a little testy because some one disagreed with you about what might have happened with an accident.

[58Skylane]

Have a friend who is professional 135 pilot who sent me the following about mr. MTV -----

Hey 182STOL,

I found out that mtv guy who is pose-ing as some sort of an expert on
all matters in the air and on the ground is actually considered kinda
Bozo by several people in the know. According to that friend up in AK I
told you about, this hotshot could not pass one too many checkrides and
is un-employable up there for professional flying work. My buddy up
there is the same combat veteran category as you (but Navy fix-wing). He
said this guy is known to be kind of a jerk. Apparently he fancys
himself as a big-shot opinion-maker on the internet groups and
inexperienced people listen to him, but the AK guys that actually fly
more than talk don't take him all that serious. Suposedly he is no
longer in Alaska because of the checkride problem. I remember a guy like
that in the early 1990's aviation "usenet" newsgroups named Captain
Zoom. He talked a great game and made himself sound like a real aviator,
but was actually a total idiot. For a while he published a magazine that
trash-talked anyone who disagreed with him, but anyone who paid to
advertise in his magazine got rave reviews from "the editor" Captain
Zoom. Maybe this mtv character is the same guy popping back up as a
back-country bush pilot expert on everything? If that guy has been on
government-sponsored luxury vacations in Laos or Cambodia or Panama or
wherever all over hell you went for 30 years then I might listen to what
he thinks about crash survival. Lots of fake experts and wanna-bees on
the internet chatrooms.

Why the heck do some of these great threads have to turn to crap by comments like this about a person that you may not even know or may not have meet in person? Maybe your friend knows MTV? I don't know. But trash talking people on a forum like this should not be tolorated! I have not meet MTV myself, but so far he's seems to add many good useful information on this forum. I thought about keeping my mouth shut, but could not resist! And I know if there's something I don't like and can just move on, but thought I'd say something because this thread started out to be and still is a great thread with lot's of great information from many (what I would assume to be) great pilots with alot more experiance than me. Anyway, sorry, just thought I'd vent a little.