Setting up Mogas station

[whee]

I've been thinking about selling mogas at a couple local airports. I've got a source for E0 91 mogas but I'm not at all familiar with everything it will take to do this. I don't really want to set tanks; I'd like to use a fuel truck or trailer and sell the fuel as self serve with credit card payment.

Any thoughts on how to sell fuel off a truck or tank with no attendant and allowing credit cards?

[qmdv]

I have a line on a 4800 gallon jet fuel truck for 5500 bucks. The bigger the tank the less per gallon for the haul.

Check this out http://www.aviationfuelclub.org/sport_fuel.phtml

Tim

[whee]

That Sport Fuel thing sounds pretty cool. I don't think I need to go that route as getting E0 fuel is not an issue and I'm sure the Sport Fuel will cost more than E0 91 mogas.

That seems like a good deal on the truck but I think it is too much fuel for what I'm looking to do. I think it would go bad before i could sell it. I can get the fuel delivered with the load being taken to a local gas station so delivery/hauling cost is not a big deal.

[L-19]

I would contact a local petroleum maintenance company, they can set you up with equipment for that. If you want it unattended you'll need a phone line to approve cards, not sure if there's a cellular or satellite system that will work with a single POS dispenser.

Also you or your driver will need a hazmat endorsement to haul fuel in a truck or approved transporting trailer. Insurance for the hauling may add quite a bit of cost per gallon depending on your volume of sales (since you think 4800gal is too big). Also you said the fuel will be picked up at a gas station? Most all tanker deliveries are gravity drop. If you have them fill an above ground tank they will need to deliver the tanker with a truck that has pumping capability & they will charge extra for that. (we've had to pump fuel between underground tanks & it's several hundred $$ charge) Maybe you've thought of all this, just saying.

I think it's an excellent idea! But... There's always a but.. The equipment, insurance & permitting may kill your plan. Best of luck!

[182 STOL driver]

Ambitious Idea --- Need more locations --- Wade Hill in south west Nebraska can supply fuel for midwest ,Trucks on road are expensive to insure ,Tanks can be set up at friendly airports .Suggest you go to small private airstrips -- Crop Duster Strips work well . Crop duster operations also get fuel delivered from Farmers Co-Op at reduced prices . I'd say set up locations 100-200 miles or less apart in areas where pilots/airplanes are concentrated. With EPA getting involved individual stations could be several hundred thousands + per location. My Buddy Jack had to re taank his gas station with more environmentally friendly tanks -with everything working it was near a 1/4 million of his dollars .

[mtv]

Great idea, but I suspect that if you research the fuel handling requirements, not to mention the liability of putting ANY fuel into someone else's airplane, you'll reconsider.

MTV

[qmdv]

EO91 is sport fuel.

Tim

[Stol]

Give Conrad- Bishoff a call.. They are in Idaho Falls, I bet a quick 5 minute conversation with them will give you all the details you want.

Ben.

[EZFlap]

Biggest problem will possibly be that you are competing with the 100LL sellers. They will not be happy about you dioing it in their backyard. So they will make sure you have to deal with all possible regulations, inspections, etc.

[GroundLooper]

Biggest problem will possibly be that you are competing with the 100LL sellers. They will not be happy about you dioing it in their backyard. So they will make sure you have to deal with all possible regulations, inspections, etc.

Or, if you are trying to sell through an airport, threaten to cut off supply to the airport so the FBO will have to choose.

[whee]

EO91 is sport fuel.

What I understood from the link is that Sport Fuel is more refined to meet aviation standards; regular E0 91 does not meet those standards so they are not the same. I could be wrong though.

The guys at Conrad are really helpful but they don't deal with setting up stations...they just supply the fuel. I already have that part taken care of.

Currently there is no fuel at one of the airports I would like to set up at. Well I guess there kinda is but it is a pain to get and you can't use a credit card, gotta have a key. The fuel can be delivered directly to the airport but I didn't know that the tankers don't have pumps. Guess it makes since that they don't, I just assumed they did. Will have to figure that out. Using above ground tanks, a truck or trailer will make EPA requirements much easier to meet, below ground tanks are more regulated because leaks are more difficult to detect.

What I think is gonna kill the idea is the liability like MTV said. But we will have to see.

[180Marty]

Some tanker semi trucks have pumps---ever see some of the big above ground vertical tanks at some big truck stops? It didn't flow up hill by itself. Evaporation is a problem with above ground.

[L-19]

Yes Marty some do.

[qmdv]

EO91 is sport fuel.

What I understood from the link is that Sport Fuel is more refined to meet aviation standards; regular E0 91 does not meet those standards so they are not the same. I could be wrong though.

They just want minimum of 91 Octane, aviation fuel filters, and an ocational inspections and sample.

Tim

[GroundLooper]

Is there the likely hood of selling to non-aviation users? That could significantly increase your throughput and decrease the chances of the gas going bad.

[OregonMaule]

Many years ago I drove a fuel delivery truck. We did gas, diesel, and home heating fuel. Our truck was 1500 gallons and had its own pump. The truck that delivers my clear mogas is 3000 gallons and has its own pump. These are expensive trucks.

I would do this. Leave the tanker truck at the airport and have another truck come and fill your truck?

I would get a old fuel tanker truck that doesn't even have to run. Build a platform on the back and plumb in your electric pump, filters and all the card reader electronics. All to fire code! Tow it to the location and plug into AC power (explosion proof) and telephone line. Bang you are selling gas. Make sure it don't leak! Leaks will get you fined.

Ask the authorities if they will approve that. Get it in writing!!

You will have some hurdles to get over, good luck...Rob

[Littlecub]

Another concern......
In central WA unattended fuel at small airports tends to disappear at night by 600-800 (or so) gal at a time......so somethief has some fuel handling equipment. On the first theft the fuel was pumped out the top of the truck tank (after breaking the lock) so he/they have fuel pumping capability. Another operator on the field recently got hit, too, but I don't know details. Both were aviation fuel, the first Avgas, the second may have been Jet-A. Both within about the last year. Both times they (a$$holes) knew how to avoid the security cameras. Neither made the paper/news that I am aware of, so there might be more in the area?

NOT trying to discourage you-I don't want to see you/anyone take this kind of financial impact....
Its best in life to learn from someone else's loss/pain .........

If you do set up, make it 'tight'.....
lc

[whee]

I would get a old fuel tanker truck that doesn't even have to run. Build a platform on the back and plumb in your electric pump, filters and all the card reader electronics. All to fire code! Tow it to the location and plug into AC power (explosion proof) and telephone line.

This is pretty much what I was thinking I would try to do.

[idahoplanenut]

I've been trying to get the FBO here in McCall to think about it. Just a stand alone tank all included can be gotten, I think theres one at the Emmett airport.

[Scouter]

I have been on a local airport committee that has constructed a double tank/credit card system this last year. It gets commissioned on June 2.
My opinions:
What you are proposing to do wont be insurable. Insurance for selling fuel is a big deal. If someone pumps from your tanks and then screws the pooch, the first finger is pointed at you. That is why you have to have the proper insurance program. If you set up an old truck and pump system with a porch on the back that looks like Polish Farmers put it together, the insurance will never happen.

The credit card side is a big item as well, you can have a local bank or a fuel company do this, they all charge money to make it happen.

Our electrical wiring had to meet NEC code, which is very complex and expensive for explosion proof wiring around fuel

I applaud what you are trying to do for local mogas, but please for your sake do it properly the first time.

Jim