Backcountry Pilot • MoGas STC?

MoGas STC?

Have you modified your aircraft? STC? STOL Kit? Major rebuild from just a data plate?
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MoGas STC?

[I split this off the C170 Drivers topic -Zane]

blueldr wrote:Re; Operating the Continental IO-360 in the C-170B.
Fuel consumption is the same as the C-145/O-300 at THE SAME AIRSPEED.
The FUZZ will become hostile, red in the face, stamp their foot, and violate you if you feed your IO-360 mogas, but the engine doesn't give a damn and loves it. Spark plugs stay nice and clean too.


I don't care if the fuzz gets red in the face, but from what I hear one of the first things the accident investigators check is fuel. They pour a sample into a styrofoam cup, if it stays in there it's avgas, if it melts right thru it's cargas. If I pile mine up, I don't want my insurance outfit refusing my claim due to use of unapproved fuel.
What grade cargas do you feed the IO-360-- will it run OK on 87 octane, or do you need 91? I would guess the Franklin 220 with it's 10.5/1 compression doesn't like any grade of cargas. Matt?

Eric[/i]
hotrod150 offline
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MoGas in Franklins: Not approved. Haven't tried it. Dowanna try it. Ain't gonna try it. :)
M
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"Rule books are paper, they will not cushion a sudden meeting of stone and metal." E.K. Gann

Started Mogas program on 91 oct. Engine ran fine. Switched to 87 oct. Engine still ran fine. Settled on 87. Happy!
I don't worry about what the insurance companies will do. I am eighty three (83) years old and the last insurance agent I talked to concerning hull insurance had a laughing fit that put him in the hospital in convulsions. I have broken my toys, very seriously, on a couple of occasions and just cry a lot, and then try to fix them again. All it takes is money! All of us old geezers are rich! We get social security from you young guys!
blueldr offline
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Both Petersen Aviation and EAA have cargas STC's. I'd choose EAA, no pain-in-the-ass adel clamp-type engine placard to install like Petersen. You must inspect carb to be sure a metal float has been installed, I believe there was an AD to replace all the plastic floats. It should have a M stamped on the carb data plate. You need to file a 337 (ya need an IA, an A&P can't approve for return to service) and do a logbook entry. Both EAA & Petersen charge a buck a horsepower for the STC, so it'll cost $145 plus whatever your IA hits ya for.
My preferred blend is about 25% 100LL and 75% 87 octane cargas. Saves about $6 an hour that way over straight avgas. I've been running my C-145 on this blend for close to 1300 hours-- runs great, plugs are always clean, no problems attributable to fuel. Cargas supposedly doesn't have a long shelf life, so if the airplane is gonna sit for long periods of time 100LL might be a better bet.
Contact EAA or Petersen for more info, they both advertise in T-A-P.

Eric
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Does anyone know of someone modifying the fuel line on a 180 hp 172 avcon conversion to do away with the fuel pump so you can get the autogas stc?
Stan
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I'd talk to Harry Dellicker at DelAir in Porterville CA. He has an STC for the O-360 in the 170/172-- in fact, it may even be the old Avcon conversion STC.
Looking at these old posts, I realize that I haven't seen anything by Blue Leader in a long long time. Dick, you still with us- posting under another name maybe?

Eric
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minimums are for busting

There were a few 180hp 170's that were modified to remove the fuel pump years ago, here in Fairbanks. They replaced the selector outlet fittings, fuel lines, and strainer with 1/2 in. hardware all the way to the carb. I have a copy of one 337 that has a avcon conversion. I don't know if it would be possible now a days.

Paul
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Not-a-Stock 170B
180+ HP IO-360M1B (Stoots)
80 Hartzell
Sportsman STOL
Super Drooper tips (the blinders)
Selkirk X-baggage
AK Bushwheels on all three points!

Fred Dyen was the one who got those field approvals for changing the fuel lines. He taught at the A/P school at Hutchinson. He did this conversion to his 180 hp 172, AND got a GW increase to, I believe, 2450?? on that airplane, since the structure is the same as the later, heavier 172's. Fred was pretty good at getting Field Approvals done.

Hes' in the lower 48 somewhere now.

MTV
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Paul, Would it be possible to got a copy of the paperwork for that 337?
It would be helpful. I have a 1/2 inch line to the gascolator and have never needed my fuel pump.
Thanks Stan
hawker offline
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63 172D
180 AVCON CS
BUSH CUFF & TIPS
VG'S GAP SEALS
POWER FLOW

Been useing car gas in my 1954 Cessna 180 with the O-470J since 1988, no problems at all, car gas got rid of the lead fouling problem that I had when I was useing 80/87. Wont make any differance pretty soon as both car gas and av fuel will cost the same. :)
Wild Bill offline
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hawker, I sent you a PM.

Paul
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Not-a-Stock 170B
180+ HP IO-360M1B (Stoots)
80 Hartzell
Sportsman STOL
Super Drooper tips (the blinders)
Selkirk X-baggage
AK Bushwheels on all three points!

hawker wrote:Does anyone know of someone modifying the fuel line on a 180 hp 172 avcon conversion to do away with the fuel pump so you can get the autogas stc?
Stan


Stan, have you talked to Peterson and/or EAA and been told that the electric boost pump installation prevents them from issuing a cargas STC? I'm looking to buy a 150/150 taildragger and have been planning to run car gas in it, but as I understand it that engine conversion uses an electric boost pump also. So maybe I'll be SOL as far as an STC goes, eh?

Eric
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minimums are for busting

Not sure of the relevance, but Maule I believe puts a small cooling scoop on their O-540's when equipped for car gas for the electric boost pump. As it comes from the factory, I'm not sure if it's an STC or on their TC.
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a64

Is not that cooling scoop ducted to the engine driven fuel pump?
It is on my 180hp. The electric fuel pump is changed completely.

flyer
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Eric
I talked to Peterson on my 172. The way I understand it. With the 180 hp avcon conversion when they got their stc the fuel burn at full power climb at sea level was right at or a little over the fuel line flow.The added fuel pump was in the stc rather than a larger fuel line.Peterson had a 172 180 avcon on auto fuel stall on takeoff roll and blamed the fuel pump and did no further testing. I would call and ask on Your 150.Total different fuel burn,testing etc.
Thanks Stan
hawker offline
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63 172D
180 AVCON CS
BUSH CUFF & TIPS
VG'S GAP SEALS
POWER FLOW

blueldr wrote:Started Mogas program on 91 oct. Engine ran fine. Switched to 87 oct. Engine still ran fine. Settled on 87. Happy!
I don't worry about what the insurance companies will do. I am eighty three (83) years old and the last insurance agent I talked to concerning hull insurance had a laughing fit that put him in the hospital in convulsions.


I think we may have overlooked something that is very cool. 83 and still flying?
Cheers!
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if anybody asks, we played poker...

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